FPV HUB
Advanced search  

News:

Who's Online
  • Dot Guests: 80
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.
* Site Sponsor
* Random Gallery Items
Hexa and gimbal 2

Views: 1215
Posted by: ROVguy
in: ROVguys Album
DSCF6008

Views: 1828
Posted by: n00b@FPV
in: Stuff
Hexa complete

Views: 1012
Posted by: ROVguy
in: ROVguys Album
EZTracker and Ubec

Views: 1024
Posted by: Coyote
in: Coyote`s Album
* Latest Gallery Items
IMAG0786

Views: 2232
Posted by: Njoro
in: FPV Stuff
Ground Station

Views: 2876
Posted by: Njoro
in: FPV Stuff
IMAG0165

Views: 2729
Posted by: Njoro
in: FPV Stuff
IMAG0161

Views: 1629
Posted by: Njoro
in: FPV Stuff
zeroG Raptor

Views: 1966
Posted by: Njoro
in: FPV Stuff

Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12

Author Topic: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!  (Read 18575 times)

BigT

  • Nothing works !!
  • Air Commodore
  • *
  • Karma: 22
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2636
  • I'm not deaf just thinking
Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #150 on: June 11, 2018, 08:35:49 PM »

I'm not even concerned about the rules + regs (laws?) .. i'm more concerned about Mr Interfering Old Git getting half of a grasp on the rules from the BBC, then trying to police me or anyone else he sees flying an aircraft while he's walking his dog. That's much more likely to happen than a police car turning up at a random place in the countryside IMO.

I've already had one melon on a bike shouting me down for flying LoS lol "that's illegal!!!"
I’ve had that as well Steve. Ignorant to much money f*#k wit on horseback who then got on her mobile and called the old bill on me.
The monies A holes round here have always been twats.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 08:37:59 PM by BigT »
Logged
Favorite TV Series:The Sopranos
Favorite WW2 Movie's: Kelly's Heroes, Battle of Britain, Band of Bro

badger

  • Pilot Officer
  • *
  • Karma: 0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #151 on: June 16, 2018, 09:32:35 PM »

400ft exemption agreed with DfT for BMFA, FPVUK, etc. members:

https://bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2528/Update-on-changes-to-UK-Regulations-and-the-400ft-height-limit

not sure whether that is limited to designated flying sites, or whether it applies to anywhere their members happen to be flying (legally).
Logged

Steve W

  • "The Gaffer"
  • Marshal of the Royal Air Force
  • *
  • Karma: 272
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11393
  • ^ not actual size
    • DroneFinder
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #152 on: June 16, 2018, 10:06:00 PM »

That isn't what it says. It says that there will be a 400ft limit, and they're applying for an exemption for FPVUK/BMFA etc members to be allowed to fly aircraft < 7Kg above it. The exemption is expected to be in place by the end of July.
 
So what exactly is changing after all this guff over the years? it's exactly the same as we already have.

Where can I get a job as a regulator? This appears to be ~7 years worth of meetings and agro for precisely bugger all.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 10:09:43 PM by Steve W »
Logged

ched

  • Flight Lieutenant
  • *
  • Karma: 1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #153 on: June 16, 2018, 10:17:59 PM »

That isn't what it says. It says that there will be a 400ft limit, and they're applying for an exemption for FPVUK/BMFA etc members to be allowed to fly aircraft < 7Kg above it. The exemption is expected to be in place by the end of July.
 
So what exactly is changing after all this guff over the years? it's exactly the same as we already have.

Where can I get a job as a regulator? This appears to be ~7 years worth of meetings and agro for precisely bugger all.
You forgot that we can now fly closer to airports!!!!!!!!!!
Logged

BigT

  • Nothing works !!
  • Air Commodore
  • *
  • Karma: 22
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2636
  • I'm not deaf just thinking
Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #154 on: June 17, 2018, 11:11:29 AM »

Typically woolly statement from the BMFA mandarins. Literal definition of that statement is that if you are a member then you can fly >7kg over 400 ft anywhere you like, up the High Street, on the beach, which is obviously incorrect. This has been done to preserve the slope and thermal guys, places like Ivinghoe Beacon et al,  probably.
Logged
Favorite TV Series:The Sopranos
Favorite WW2 Movie's: Kelly's Heroes, Battle of Britain, Band of Bro

electrotor

  • Moderator
  • Air Vice-Marshal
  • *
  • Karma: 74
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3348
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #155 on: June 18, 2018, 11:52:51 AM »

The BMFA statement makes reference to ANO Article 94A, which currently does not exist. The ANO does indeed have Article 94 but is subdivided into (1) to (5). However you will find the proposed actual wording of the amendment here.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/623/pdfs/uksiem_20180623_en.pdf
 

"This instrument makes amendments to the Air Navigation Order 2016 (S.I. 2016/765) (“the ANO 2016”) in relation to small unmanned aircraft (“SUA”), which includes the type of aircraft commonly known as small drones."

It is somewhat less wooly than I have come to expect and, whilst not actually defining the dreaded "d" word, it clearly states that the amendment will be applicable to small unmanned aircraft including drones. It remains to be seen whether those required to enforce the new regulation will be briefed and indeed understand this.
"Honest officer, it's not a drone because it has a wing and propellers like a normal toy plane."
"Sorry to bother you sir. I'll have to detain your mate with the DJI Phantom though, like it shows in the Dronecode."

Determining 400ft is going to be a bit of a problem for Messrs Plod I suspect. Without telemetry or accurate measuring devices 375ft is OK but 425ft is not. Can you spot the difference?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 12:00:53 PM by electrotor »
Logged
Natibus in luto, caput inter nubila.

electrotor

  • Moderator
  • Air Vice-Marshal
  • *
  • Karma: 74
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3348
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #156 on: June 18, 2018, 12:03:30 PM »

Here's a bit more for the legally inclined.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/623/made
Logged
Natibus in luto, caput inter nubila.

BigT

  • Nothing works !!
  • Air Commodore
  • *
  • Karma: 22
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2636
  • I'm not deaf just thinking
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #157 on: June 18, 2018, 12:44:09 PM »

\" two new categories of person defined in new article 94G (inserted by article 7 of this Order): the “remote pilot” (defined as an individual who remotely operates the aircraft’s flight controls, or who monitors its course while it is flying automatically and is able to intervene by operating the flight controls) and the “SUA operator” (defined as the person who has the management of the aircraft)."

I am not the pilot officer, I am the manager, I bought it and built it, that man over there is the pilot!

In particular it makes a clear explanation of Article 7
 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 12:52:17 PM by BigT »
Logged
Favorite TV Series:The Sopranos
Favorite WW2 Movie's: Kelly's Heroes, Battle of Britain, Band of Bro

Steve W

  • "The Gaffer"
  • Marshal of the Royal Air Force
  • *
  • Karma: 272
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11393
  • ^ not actual size
    • DroneFinder
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #158 on: June 18, 2018, 02:03:01 PM »

Would the SUA operator be a limited company?
Logged

electrotor

  • Moderator
  • Air Vice-Marshal
  • *
  • Karma: 74
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3348
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #159 on: June 18, 2018, 02:58:20 PM »

I have sent the following questions to the DfT.

I have read through "EXPLANATORY MEMORANDUM TO THE AIR NAVIGATION (AMENDMENT) ORDER 2018 2018 No. 623" and have a few questions.

1.    Who will be responsible for enforcing the regulations under the new amendments?
2.    Can you verify that the SUA operator and remote pilot can be one and the same person?
3.    Is it the responsibilty of the SUA operator or remote pilot or regulation enforcer to verify that operation is not taking place over 400ft?
4.     How do you anticipate verification of flights up to 400ft being accomplished?
5.    There is no mention of control line or free flight. Will these activities also be subject to the new regulations under the amendment?
6.    As you are probably aware, there is no means by which a free flight SUA can be controlled once launched. How do you propose to deal with something which cannot be achieved?
7.    SUA flying from cliffs and hillsides and over valleys  creates an impossible situation for flying below 400ft. How will this height restriction be determined?
8.    There is no mention for First Person View (FPV) in the amendments. Do you anticipate this being a special category of SUA as it currently is?
9.    There is no mention of CAP 658 Model Aircraft : A Guide To Safe Flying. When do you anticipate this being amended to reflect the amendmants to the ANO?
10.  There is no clear and unambiguous definition of "drone". I have previously contacted the CAA, DfT & AAIB and cannot illicit a definition. Will this be clarified in order to avoid confusion, misunderstanding and incorrect application?
Logged
Natibus in luto, caput inter nubila.

RayBlueSky

  • Flying officer
  • *
  • Karma: 1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 73
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #160 on: June 21, 2018, 11:53:23 AM »

I realised a long time ago I was never gonna be able to fly FPV and meet all the rules and criteria to meet all of the insurance requirements, where I am at now is to reduce the liability associated with the pursuit of my sport/hobby  ;)
The latest build is a Mini Skywalker weighing in at 248 grams,

 


it has a 1000ma 2s battery and I am hoping it will do a reasonable turn of speed and moderate duration, loaded with Inav and GPS RTH I can do no more to make sure I have covered ever possible failure of Tx/Rx

ironically I will be flying LOS with much bigger aircraft that will fly much faster with no safety options that could potentially cause much more damage if something goes wrong,
What we need are simple rules and guidance... a sport/hobby shouldn't be a full time dedication to rules and regulation, I just wish to fly safely without endangering anyone be they on the ground or in the air.

RBS.
Logged

electrotor

  • Moderator
  • Air Vice-Marshal
  • *
  • Karma: 74
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3348
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #161 on: June 21, 2018, 12:24:20 PM »

I realised a long time ago I was never gonna be able to fly FPV and meet all the rules and criteria to meet all of the insurance requirements, where I am at now is to reduce the liability associated with the pursuit of my sport/hobby  ;)

What exactly is it that prevents you meeting all the rules and criteria of the insurance requirements? You are obviously going to some lengths with Inav and GPS RTH to minimise the risk.
You lay yourself wide open to voiding any insurance if you knowingly fly illegally.


What we need are simple rules and guidance... a sport/hobby shouldn't be a full time dedication to rules and regulation, I just wish to fly safely without endangering anyone be they on the ground or in the air.

The rules are not complicated, but I guess the presentation of them may be confusing. In my questions to the DfT I have asked about a revision to CAP 658. This document is the go-to for model flying.
Of course every responsible model flyer wishes to fly safely but one big difference between model flying and say the sports of microlight flying or scuba diving is that the "danger" is remote and more likely to affect a third party. Microlight flyers and scuba divers are very focussed on safety because they are the first ones to arrive at the scene of the accident and the ones most likely to be injured.


Logged
Natibus in luto, caput inter nubila.

Steve W

  • "The Gaffer"
  • Marshal of the Royal Air Force
  • *
  • Karma: 272
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11393
  • ^ not actual size
    • DroneFinder
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #162 on: June 21, 2018, 03:48:52 PM »

Well the one that voids my insurance is the fact that I fly alone.

I'm yet to be convinced that this in itself is any more dangerous than having a competent observer because I've been flying for years now and haven't had a single accident - probably because I fly away from people / houses, and when air traffic is non-existent .. i.e. ~6am or ~9pm.

I realise this leaves me wide open but like Ray I am much more comfortable with the whole thing when I fly my lightweight z84 as opposed to my Skywalker. But since I'd be treat the same in a court, it makes no legal difference whether I'm flying the wing, or the hefty aircraft anyway - so I'm starting to wonder why I waste my time worrying... if I fly illegally I might as well just do it with whatever I fancy.

The only alternative is for me to stop flying or make some friends nearby who don't mind getting up early or going out late...
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 03:58:41 PM by Steve W »
Logged

BigT

  • Nothing works !!
  • Air Commodore
  • *
  • Karma: 22
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2636
  • I'm not deaf just thinking
Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #163 on: June 21, 2018, 10:01:58 PM »

Re your question 7. Had a coffee with a bunch of full size and model pilots today and talked about the 400 ft rule and the current cap 658, the full size guys where focussed on if it’s agl or asl, perhaps you could ask a second question?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Logged
Favorite TV Series:The Sopranos
Favorite WW2 Movie's: Kelly's Heroes, Battle of Britain, Band of Bro

Loopdreams

  • Air Commodore
  • *
  • Karma: 33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2118
Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #164 on: June 21, 2018, 10:38:39 PM »

Surely common sense dictates that it'll mean above ground level.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12
 

* Recent Topics
Dodgy camera? by MichaelOveva
[Today at 02:04:04 PM]


Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep! by Steve W
[Yesterday at 05:59:11 PM]


Early doors by Steve W
[Yesterday at 10:32:57 AM]


What arrived today? by English Turbines
[Yesterday at 12:11:09 AM]


KINGKONG / LDARC FPV EGG PRO 138mm - no Power to FC by Peter M
[June 22, 2018, 09:48:16 PM]


The PinPointRC GPS tracker - any tests I need to do ? by ched
[June 22, 2018, 09:15:06 PM]


Team Breakout FPV Power Cooling Towers by JAB1a
[June 22, 2018, 06:16:01 PM]


Z-84 Annotated Cruise Around My Field by Steve W
[June 22, 2018, 05:36:14 PM]


A break in our weather by RayBlueSky
[June 22, 2018, 10:57:04 AM]


How big is your motor...? by English Turbines
[June 21, 2018, 09:15:29 PM]


Popped my fixed wing Cherry by grahamjb
[June 21, 2018, 08:51:03 PM]


Martian 2.....& Molly the Dog. by English Turbines
[June 17, 2018, 12:41:43 AM]


FXT Technology....Viper Goggles Test + Tiny Seven by English Turbines
[June 15, 2018, 07:12:26 PM]


Better Bungee Required by Drone 5
[June 15, 2018, 11:58:17 AM]


3D Printed Wing by Coyote
[June 15, 2018, 09:03:56 AM]

* Keywords
fpvhub  fpv hub
first person view video piloting

rc r/c r.c. model aircraft flight pilot fpv piloting wings fly flying flight fuse fuselage aileron tail pan tilt tx rx vtx rtx receiver transmitter video radio control controlled headtracker fpvuk bfpvmfa fpv uk first person view video piloting fpv servo servos easystar easy star multiplex antenna VR1400 fatshark video goggles 2.4 5.8 1.2 900 ghz mhz uhf panel antenna circular fpv polarised tracker dbi 10mw 100mw 500mw camera osd fpvuk bfpvmfa fpv first person view video piloting downlink ezantenna tracker gps EzOSD current sensor tiny telemetry autopilot ccd gopro kx131 kx171 FY21 FY21A FY21AP II IMU oracle diversity processor video switcher fpvuk bfpvmfa fpv uk first person view video piloting insurance simulator delta wing glider funjet quadcropter helis heli helicopter electric nitro scratchbuild scratch build batteries battery 2s 3s 4s lipo lipos fpvuk first person view video piloting Antenna fpvhub  fpv first person view video piloting rc r/c r.c. model aircraft flight pilot fpv Airframe Artifical Horizon Auto pilot Av AWG AWU Bec Brownout Buddy box C rating CG Circular Polarized Data logger Dbi Dbm Dipole Diversity DVR Easycap EPO EPP Failsafe FM Freshnel zone Frequency Gain Ghz Goggles GPS Ground Station Gyro Head Tracker HD Hz Inverted Vee Jst LC Filter Lipo LUX Mah Mhz Omni OSD Pan Patch Platform Polarization Rssi RTH Servo Spotter Telemetry Tilt Tracker Transmitter TVL Ubec UHF Video Splitter Vrx Vtx Watts Yagi  fpv uk first person view video piloting rc r/c r.c. model aircraft flight pilot fpv

http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;xml http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=0 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=100 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=200 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=300 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=400 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=500 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=600 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=700 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=800 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=900 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=1000 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=1100 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=1200
* Disclaimer
The content, views and opinions expressed within this forum are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views, official policy or position of FpvHub. However, we reserve the right to remove or edit any content considered inappropriate.