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Author Topic: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!  (Read 20815 times)

Steve W

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #105 on: April 07, 2018, 11:10:34 AM »

How will this affect "free flight" at BMFA meetings? I never understood how that was deemed safe while FPV was the devils work!

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Granpaw Jonah

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #106 on: April 07, 2018, 09:39:25 PM »

Ah well, there's those who just want to fly and there's those who just want to administrate and laud it over everyone with undemocratically conceived rules and regulations. How many drones are there in the U.K..? How many reports of serious incidents do you ever hear about? I would argue relatively few... so just leave people to use their own judgement... you'll never be able to regulate and legislate to stop the nut jobs who do crazy adolescent stuff because that's what they probably are.
 What ever.......
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BigT

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Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2018, 09:37:46 AM »

How will this affect "free flight" at BMFA meetings? I never understood how that was deemed safe while FPV was the devils work!

Steve, the EASA legislation, unless changed, will cover all unmanned aerial vehicles. So,thatís free flight, rockets, rc, and limits the height of tethered kites and balloons. Also covers some aspects of non commercial fireworks. For anyone interested I will post a link to the EU paper on the definitions. Of course itís entirely possible that we as a country, may decide to exempt certain categories at certain locations. For example an LMA show or the free flight scale event at Old Warden.


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BigT

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Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #108 on: April 08, 2018, 09:56:21 AM »

How many drones are there in the U.K..?

The word Drone is a misnomer. This legislation regulates the ownership and operation of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles. Currently the bmfa has over 36,000 members and 820 registered club flying sites. Then you have the LMA, JMA, SMAA etc etc. So I would estimate that there are in excess of 60,000 airworthy UAV in the UK


How many reports of serious incidents do you ever hear about?

A simple search for the word drone in the airprox web site for 2017 produces 30 reports involving full size. Including one where the pilot of a UAV reported a full size for infringing his airspace. However, there is one confirmed collision in New York State where a Phantom hit the main rotor of a Blackhawk, which landed safely. The owner of the Phantom was traced and is currently undergoing prosecution by the FAA. https://www.suasnews.com/2017/12/ntsb-aviation-incident-final-report-blackhawk-dji-phantom-collision/?utm_source=DroneNewsDailyEmailMore&mc_cid=8a26d95b71&mc_eid=065ea54cf7


https://jrupprechtlaw.com/drone-operator-prosecutions-faa-recreational-commercial-drone-operators-need-know

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« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 02:43:11 PM by BigT »
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electrotor

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #109 on: April 08, 2018, 07:41:52 PM »

There is currently NO official definition of "drone" and not even an unofficial one on which the various authorities agree. The AAIB are by their own admission in correspondence to me use the word very vaguely. For any legislation to be enforceable it must contain definitions of terminology. The DfT has a definition for unmanned aerial vehicles and this, they inform me will include control line and free flight as well as r/c. When questioned on autonomous aerial vehicles which are essentially not remote controlled, they also informed me these would come under the same definition. They have yet to finalise their deliberations but I would just love to see how they would react to reports of objects which they may not even have considered, such as frisbees.
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BigT

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Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2018, 07:50:21 PM »

I have read somewhere an official release from the EU council listing definitions within the act. I am sure that the word drone had a definition as UASV and UAV.  Iíll see if I can dig it up. It was in the same batch of documents released after the Feb and March opinions, it also had the 50 mph 80 joules amendment. This was not an easa doc but a EU Brussels document. I donít think the DfT have really got much of a clue. My village cricket team are always throwing and hitting a round red UAV at over 80 Joules


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electrotor

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #111 on: April 09, 2018, 12:22:22 AM »

Not just cricket. Consider the energy and speed of those Wimbledon tennis balls in very close proximity to groups of hundreds of people. Then of course there's golf with the balls carefully designed to fly further. Foamy v golf ball. No competition in terms of OUCH value.
If they had just left us alone and simply enforced existing regulations I'm sure we'd all be a lot happier.
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BigT

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« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 09:27:55 AM by BigT »
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electrotor

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #113 on: May 30, 2018, 10:57:51 AM »

Just spotted this on the BBC News website.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44293905

An internet search using various key words does not bring up any other reports supporting this. Indeed the UK Parliament's own website indicates that the next reading will not take place until 15 Feb. 2019.

https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/droneregulation.html

What does the BBC know that the rest of us do not know?
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BigT

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #114 on: May 30, 2018, 12:43:35 PM »

Yet again we have the misuse of the drone word. Reading that the man on the Clapham Omnibus is going to think Drone = Quad/Multicopter. No comment from the hobbies governing bodies.
Found this https://www.suasnews.com/2018/05/uk-new-drone-laws-bring-added-protection-for-passengers/

And its all over the BMFA FB page. General comment from the Ostrich Brigade "doesnt apply to me".

And


Quote from DfT:

Amendment to the Air Navigation Order 2016 Ė 30th May 2018

Tomorrow morning we will be laying an amendment to the Air Navigation Order 2016 in Parliament. Following the governmentís consultation last year, this will put into law the requirements for:

1. operators of drones above 250g to be registered

2. pilots flying these drones (known as Ďremote pilotsí) to obtain an acknowledgement of competency from the CAA, having passed requirements set by the CAA such as an online safety test to prove their knowledge of the restrictions

3. a height limit of 400ft for all drone flights

4. a restriction from flying drones within 1km of protected aerodromes in the UK, unless you have the permission of the Air Traffic Control unit in question.

Measures 1 & 2 will not come into force until 30th November 2019 to give drone users time to adjust to this change and allow the Civil Aviation Authority to complete their work on the systems and educational materials required to implement these policies.

Measures 3 & 4 will come into force sooner on 30th July 2018, i.e. 2 months from now. With regards to both the 400ft and airports restrictions, where drone operations are deemed to be safe enough, the CAA will have the power to exempt operators from adhering to these rules. This will allow safe, innovative and positive commercial use of drone technology to continue.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 12:53:46 PM by BigT »
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electrotor

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #115 on: May 30, 2018, 01:30:11 PM »

Agreed BigT. What constitutes a "drone"? Let's hope the new laws clearly define this.

It appears that the BBC was ahead of the DfT with their press release. Read all about it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-drone-laws-bring-added-protection-for-passengers

"The new laws will also require owners of drones weighing 250 grams or more to register with the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and for drone pilots to take an online safety test to ensure the UKís skies are safe from irresponsible flyers."

Oh really?



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Steve W

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #116 on: May 30, 2018, 02:40:13 PM »

3 and 4 are surely already implemented as part of the Air Navigation Order, right?

This is an exercise in bureaucracy anyway - I mean who's going to enforce 1 and 2 regardless? you'd have to be incredibly unlucky to be "caught" and perhaps only if you're being a nuisance anyway.
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Steve W

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #117 on: May 30, 2018, 02:43:35 PM »

I have no problem with (3) at all - I think drones should be limited to 400ft, and an amendment made to GA traffic to prohibit them from going below 500ft unless in the vicinity of an airport (which 4 covers for drones) ... immediately solving the airprox issue. It Just Makes Sense(tm).

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about registering now - I don't really want to (who's business is it?) but as long as a) I don't have to pay and b) I don't have to announce my flight via an app every time I chuck a foamie in the air I don't see how it's much different to joining the BMFA and passing an A and B test really...
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electrotor

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #118 on: May 30, 2018, 02:59:52 PM »

The 400ft height limit is a widely held misunderstanding.

The Dronecode states 400ft. Firstly it does not define a drone and secondly it is neither a regulation nor an acceptable means of compliance within the ANO.

CAP 658 is the reference document. It place a 400ft height limit on small unmanned aircraft weighting more than 7kg. The height limit on those weighing less is not stated. Therefore the height limit reverts to direct unaided line of sight. In the right conditions I have legally flown my Phantom 3 up to 1200ft.
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Loopdreams

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Re: Drone Debate in Parliament - includes Shakespeare quotes! Yep!
« Reply #119 on: May 30, 2018, 03:19:44 PM »

People are talking about the new proposals, not the existing rules.
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