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Author Topic: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake  (Read 1501 times)

BigT

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Earlier this year I had a dispute about some gig tickets I purchased with a MasterCard Credit Card via an online web site that turned out to be forged. Long story short, I made a successful claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act and got a 100% refund even though the agency had long since run away. The next thing I did was to change all my online payment methods to credit card and remove all direct debits from the likes of Amazon, PayPal etc. so I would be paying all my eBay purchases etc etc with a credit card and getting the cover of section 75...or at least I thought I had!  Turns out that PayPal had not removed the bank account direct debit. I purchased an item 2 weeks ago that was not as described, a blatant con, but very cleverly done. When I tried to claim on the eBay money back guarantee, they wouldnt have it as I had admitted that I had an engineer look at the item to discover if was a simple battery replacement or more serious. (the item description stated that it was working but may need a new internal battery in the near future) I had informed the seller that I was doing so. Too honest, thats my problem!  Engineer told me that the unit was properly cattle trucked and not fit for purpose. Next off to PayPal who also would not agree a claim as the item "was not in the condition it was sent in" as the back had been off. So off to the credit card company only to be told that PayPal had put the payment through as a direct debit so I was not covered.

So here is the rub if you think you have removed a bank account by doing so on the PP web site its worth a simple phone call to make sure it has been removed.   PayPal and eBay are absolutely no use what so ever when you have an issue.  They will never divulge an address unless they agree a return, data protection etc etc.
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Ratty

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2017, 08:14:46 PM »

I dont think you are covered under section 75 when using a credit card through PayPal anyway, as there is a third party involved. So the CC company has no dealings with the seller.

I could be wrong tho, but pretty sure ive read/heard that before.
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Brucey

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PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2017, 08:29:40 PM »

Yeah your correct Ratty.
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BigT

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PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2017, 09:39:28 AM »

I dont think you are covered under section 75 when using a credit card through PayPal anyway, as there is a third party involved. So the CC company has no dealings with the seller.

I could be wrong tho, but pretty sure ive read/heard that before.
Not so according to Lloyd’s Customer Service yesterday. As it was PP that took the payment on behalf of the seller. They would have gone after PP if the payment had been through the credit card or even if it had been the debit card, the payment had to be over £100. Worth noting that section 75 generally only covers goods purchased direct from the seller. E.g. airline tickets from the airline not from an agent. It was PP customer service that advised me to go the section 75 route as their T&C did not cover the return of goods, which has the stupid clause of the goods have to be in “as delivered condition”. If I had told a lie and not admitted fitting a new battery I would have succeeded, so note to self, don’t be so honest.
Anyhow all online purchases by this household are now through a card not a direct debit.
EDIT
just waded through the PP T&C and it’s correct that you can go for section 75 against PP. interestingly they also list the various EU bodies that also offer protection

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« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 10:24:28 AM by BigT »
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Ratty

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2017, 11:02:47 AM »

Good to know, thanks for the correction T.
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Dave

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2017, 11:47:16 AM »

I'm extremely surprised that your situation has gone this way. eBay and PayPal's systems are so buyer biased its almost unbelievable.
I have been a victim from the other side on far too many occasions to consider it a viable option to continue trading through eBay. The amount of returns I've had that have clearly been misused, damaged, tampered with or are not the same item I sent out in the first place is bordering on ridiculous. NOT ONCE has a claim started by a buyer gone my way even in a situation whereby fraud was proven to have been attempted. That particular buyer even had the cheek to leave me untrue negative feedback which eBay will not remove.

IMHO you are far better off dealing direct with customers/sellers. Third parties (eBay & PayPal for example) seem to be able to override the T&Cs of other companies they deal with somehow. They also make promises on your behalf then you are held responsible in any situation whereby they are not kept.


Anyway, Ill stop ranting now, sorry to hijack your thread, eBay and PayPal where mentioned and as you may of guessed, I don't like them ;)

Sorry to hear that you have lost out after a genuine attempt to use their 'system' has failed :(
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Steve W

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2017, 12:42:06 PM »

This is why I never recommend PayPal payments to any of my clients - SagePay all the way.
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Pete

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2017, 01:25:25 PM »

This is beside the point but I'd highly recommend using PayPal for buying from sites like banggood though, I purchased a diatone gt200 from them and received a battery charger instead.

When contacting them they were adamant that the goods sent weighed the same as the quadcopter and we're refusing to refund of replace the item despite it weighing far less than they said, and even accused me of trying to commit fraud. If it wasn't for PayPal I doubt I would have got my refund.

Still cost me a third of what I paid for the quadcopter to send the charger back by recorded post but it was better than losing £210.
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Loopdreams

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2017, 03:31:56 PM »

This is why I never recommend PayPal payments to any of my clients - SagePay all the way.
Whatever the shortcomings I can't help feeling that not offering PayPal might actually harm someone's business these days.
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Dave

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2017, 04:23:43 PM »

Very true Loopdreams. I still use PayPal for my business.

Moving away from eBay has had a big affect on my sales but it got to the point where I was spending so much time desperately trying to find polite responses to rude, arrogant fuktards and dealing with being ripped off left right and centre, it just wasn't worth it anymore.

On the plus side (for you lot) I'm in a position to have another pricing re-structure soon as I've cut out one of the many middle men involved when you 'work for yourself' :)
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Steve W

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2017, 05:21:52 PM »

Whatever the shortcomings I can't help feeling that not offering PayPal might actually harm someone's business these days.

Well, you can enable Paypal payments from within SagePay itself but you can also selectively disable that option at checkout for "certain" customers...

PayPal is great for subscription or small / digital purchases but if I were selling high-dollar physical goods there's no way I'd recommend PayPal to a seller for the exact reasons this thread covers.
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BigT

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2017, 05:23:39 PM »

I'm extremely surprised that your situation has gone this way.

Sorry to hear that you have lost out after a genuine attempt to use their 'system' has failed :(

No more surprised and annoyed than me. Apparently my big mistake was admitting that I had attempted to fix it by installing a new internal battery. The customer service person even said she understood why as it had been mentioned in the description that it may need one. Anyhow lesson learned, no bank account is associated with PayPal now only one credit card, so they cannot do the same again. The people at my bank told me they had seen it done before so hence the heads up.  Only issue is that if the PP account goes into credit then I cannot draw down the money as there is no bank account associated with the PP Acc.  Easy to rectify though. Just open a Post Office Gyro Account with no overdraft, open a new PP account and gift it.
 
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BigT

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2017, 05:25:02 PM »

Well, you can enable Paypal payments from within SagePay itself but you can also selectively disable that option at checkout for "certain" customers...

PayPal is great for subscription or small / digital purchases but if I were selling high-dollar physical goods there's no way I'd recommend PayPal to a seller for the exact reasons this thread covers.

So just run that by me again. If I sell on eBay I dont think I have the option to receive payment in any way except PayPal do I? And I cannot pay online with SagePay can I? Its basically for businesses isnt it?

« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 05:27:13 PM by BigT »
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Steve W

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Re: PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2017, 07:04:25 PM »

Yea sorry I was going off track ... I was talking about the systems I build with different payment provider integrations (Sagepay / PayPal / Barclays etc)
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BigT

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PayPal Made A Mistake Now I Am Not Covered. Dont MAke The Same Mistake
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2017, 10:33:50 AM »

So to overcome the PP funds withdrawal issue if you don’t link a bank account to your PP account. Simple solution is to open a “basic” bank account with Virgin. No fees, No overdraft facility (cannot be overdrawn by PP reversing a payment), managed on line 


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