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Author Topic: Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement  (Read 3478 times)

ched

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Re: Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2018, 11:08:13 PM »

Interesting but they have taken their time to get this document out. They should have been on this the day the consultation was out.
Almost looks like they have been a bit complacent thinking their aircrafts were safe and it just applies to multi rotors and they have just realised that 'model aircrafts' are included in 'drones'.

Good points about hang gliders and paracenders etc

Anyway I hope it helps to get more support and more responses to the consultation from people who enjoy hobby flying what ever type of flying craft they use. Well done to them for producing a guide to help fill the very long consultation that the gov have produced.
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The flying cat

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Re: Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2018, 12:07:23 AM »

there are a few questions they chose not to answer, that i dont understand why, but i guess they have their reasons, mostly im happy with their responses, i like the fact they mentioned kids riding bikes!!
roads are way more dangerous, we had 3 crashes in my city yesterday that closed the roads and caused chaos, so much so it was mentioned in the local rag.
i have only read through it once, will give it another go to see if i spot anything of note, imo commercial drones will be more of a threat and that did seem to come across as i skip read it.
i still cant get my head around how anyone thinks amazon etc drones can be considered safe in built up areas, i foresee so many things going wrong, dogs getting hurt, kids getting hurt, rouge drones falling out of the sky onto cars etc.
 when i park fly i have had a few kids shout 'hey lets catch that drone' and run after it, i of course fly well away / land, go home until they go (i live directly opposite a small park.) im not sure why they do it tbh, still trying to fathom it.
mine is sub 250g, amazon drones will be way bigger, flying lawnmowers.....


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BigT

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Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2018, 10:18:15 AM »

I had  already made all my contacts aware of the questionnaire hoping they would complete a return. On checking up 4 weeks later only 2 had replied. Others generally stating that they ď didnít understand most of the questions especially those on ownership and useĒ. So that resulted in them not getting to the end questions that on my opinion are the most important. Just imagine being at a site where a 700 size helicopter was being thrashed around and the police turn up with a jammer demanding the pilot to land or be jammed!
I will now do another reply using the BMFA answers.


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Shikra

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Re: Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2018, 02:06:19 PM »

Filled it in. Thoughts....

Some good questions but
Its too long. - I think many will give up. before completing. Maybe that is the intention
Some repetition
Some minor items seem to get more focus than major items.

In many areas not enough qualifying info up front so you know what you are answering about - answer might be different for a 250gr drone vs a 20kg drone. Whatever a drone is defined as :)

This has not filled me in with any confidence at all.
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BigT

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Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2018, 10:10:53 AM »

Filled it in. Thoughts....


Some minor items seem to get more focus than major items.

In many areas not enough qualifying info up front so you know what you are answering about - answer might be different for a 250gr drone vs a 20kg drone. Whatever a drone is defined as :)

This has not filled me in with any confidence at all.
You make a valid comment, I think it is the aim of the paper to confuse. I answered this when it was first published and even though I consider myself aware of the legislation and all publications that led up to it I found the use of ďdroneĒ and ďmodel airplaneĒ description confusing. At least the BMFA have made it clear that they are one and the same. ď A drone is any SUA over 250 gramsĒ. For example the question on number of drones owned. That could be interpreted as only a multi copter. However  In my case thatís 1 ic heli, 5 quads and 30 or so other rc planes which include gliders, autogyros, plus 7kg Fixed Wing, fun fliers and scale models, not to mention the ones waiting repair or build. But only half of those are airworthy or radioed up. Surely another question should be how many rx and tx do you own, or SUA in airworthy condition.


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Steve W

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Re: Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2018, 10:51:50 AM »

My question to the above is "how is that relevant to anything?".

You can only fly one at a time so if the discussion is about safety, it doesn't matter if you own one or two hundred aircraft.
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The flying cat

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Re: Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2018, 11:15:44 AM »

We know that model flyers have an excellent safety record, we also know the press have demonized our hobby, we also know the press is owned by big corps, bezos owns the wall street journal.
these new rules are being driven by the desire of big corps that can see huge profits being made using the tech developed by hobbyists, it is clearly unfair that we are being essentially persecuted to facilite the will of big corps.
as i have said before, they pose a far bigger risk than we do, how can they be allowed to fly wherever they want, as far as they want, and most certainly not line of site while we have restrictions on us?
its insane.
this is what happens when corps put profits before safety
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/20/gig-economy-demands-raise-uber-and-amazon-drivers-risk-of-crashing

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/amazon-delivery-driver-says-pressure-14334887

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/delivery-driver-terrifying-crash-blames-14332959

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/05/15/amazon-drivers-accused-deadly-accidents/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/amazon-delivery-drivers-parcels-online-orders-website-toilet-breaks-minimum-wage-a8102386.html

does anyone seriously think it will be any different when they have thousands of gps guided/ automated drones whizzing around in the sky?

they say that attack is the best form of defense, imo we should focus our efforts on that basis, they will be the problem, not us.

P.S. its how i took on and beat the most powerful people in my profession.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 11:36:35 AM by The flying cat »
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BigT

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Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2018, 02:42:14 PM »

My question to the above is "how is that relevant to anything?".

You can only fly one at a time so if the discussion is about safety, it doesn't matter if you own one or two hundred aircraft.
I think itís to asses the possible volume of SUA as they have no idea of the size of the possible threat. Itís reckoned that there are over 100,000 rc pilots in the British Isles. They havenít even written the methodology of registration yet.


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BigT

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Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2018, 02:43:32 PM »



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Steve W

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Re: Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2018, 02:47:50 PM »

I think itís to asses the possible volume of SUA as they have no idea of the size of the possible threat. Itís reckoned that there are over 100,000 rc pilots in the British Isles. They havenít even written the methodology of registration yet.


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The threat remains ~100,000 regardless of if we all own 1 or 90 drones - we can only ever fly one at a time.
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krikey

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Re: Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2018, 09:31:38 AM »

Could this FINS system be a good thing?

During this next consultation round, there's a suggestion of a FINS system. My understanding is that it may be an app that you use to register your flight before you fly. I actually think this might be a good idea if done correctly although my understanding is that NOTAMs already do the same thing but let's not get bogged down in different acronyms for now.

So you turn up, you file a FINS with height range and position for the CAA to access in case of any reported mis-demeanour.

Take this a step further and let's use FINS to our advantage. Under normal operating conditions you'd typically be flying under 400ft and within LOS so no special requirements there, however if we're filing a flight plan, why not have the opportunity to request higher altitude or distance, legally through FINS in advance. Lets say 48 hours. If the request to fly 10km West at 1000ft is filed in advance easily and correctly and does not clash with existing FINS, NOTAMs or no-go areas, could this not be a good thing for long range FPV?

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Krikey

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Re: Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2018, 10:02:01 AM »

Another thought. Wouldn't it be best for the people who know how these things work, their limitations, the dangers, the tech, the industry etc. to perhaps provide their own system?

If the general public are clamouring for more regulation, waving their red topped tabloids at the sky in anger, or perhaps its lobbying by Amazon, or maybe some very concerned full sized pilots, why can't we as an FPV and model flying organisation provide our own more sensible alternative? You know... officially. It seems that much of this consultation shows a severe lack of understanding by some parties responsible for the questionnaire and perhaps for the decision making process.

Could we not expand on what FPVUK started and provide a voluntary scheme where its members agree to adhere to the regulations and even have some kind of our own FINS system? Sure its not the official system, but if we could prove that it worked well for its members, would that not help us build a case that the vast majority of us want to fly safely and do so?

I for one would gladly provide time/resources to helping with this.

My FPV org insurance renews annually automatically now, could this not be expanded upon to also provide more comprehensive membership, e. a simple app for logging flights and informing its members of any new updates, a simple online test set every 6 months/1 year that members are asked to complete (not for the purposes of data collection but for the purposes of making us aware of changes to the law).

It seems that we (and I count myself in this group) have been hammering on for so long about how unfair this whole situation is, but I do not see any alternative developed by any of us to show the decision makers that we can regulate ourselves. Perhaps I'm wrong?
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Krikey

The flying cat

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Re: Open consultation Drone legislation: use, restrictions and enforcement
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2018, 12:15:24 PM »

i think you make a good point, if FINS would allow for the kind of flights you suggest it would be a good thing, at the mo the legal limit is very restrictive, i would say over the top.
trouble is they are not making that distinction, as the rules stand, FINS would be a huge knee jerk reaction / solution, i dont really get why a real recreational pilot can do  / fly pretty much wherever they like, while models have such heavy restrictions, there is no real need for recreational flying of real planes.... so why are we being shoved into a tiny box??
"i want to fly a plane" yeah good on you, i want to fly my model, why should you have more rights than i do?
there have been plenty of real plane and heli crashes that have caused death, way more than models...

the park and field i fly in will never ever get anywhere even close to a real aircraft, i will never ever be a risk to them, if they did fly over my park i would assume it was a terrorist attack..really.

what i really dont  get is why some want to fly near airports, i just dont get it.....

so , FINS could be good if it allowed long range model flying, but if we are still restricted to 500m and 400ft, i just dont see the point tbh

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