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Author Topic: More regulation? Well less actually!  (Read 894 times)

electrotor

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More regulation? Well less actually!
« on: October 29, 2018, 11:42:47 PM »

This is about delegated regulation, in our case the UK CAA, so it seems likely that Brexit will make little or no difference to the regulation of model flying in the UK.

https://bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2555/Update-on-EASA-regulations-for-unmanned-aircraft?fbclid=IwAR20kjRBwrVh76OP0DBHKvaq3ldQhS2ZAefoq_spuC801_gw4e1h1lOHhnQ
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Loopdreams

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Re: More regulation? Well less actually!
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2018, 09:25:25 AM »

I am unclear as to whether or not this will apply to anyone who is a member of an association or people actually flying at designated sites.  If it's the former then simply by joining the BMFA as a country member then you will be able to ignore any of the new regulations and just fly within the existing rules, but this seems unlikely.
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FPVSteve

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Re: More regulation? Well less actually!
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2018, 10:43:14 AM »

Is it too much to ask for the CAA to provide a concise bullet list of do's and don'ts rather than pages of waffle that are impossible to get any clear answers from. I mean you're a hobbyist with an active interest in these laws and still it's as clear as mud. What chance has Mr Random got? They won't follow rules they don't understand. That in itself is a safety issue which the rules, as I'm led to understand, are designed to try and prevent...
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Loopdreams

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Re: More regulation? Well less actually!
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2018, 11:19:56 AM »

I think that can only really be done once the rules are actually in place.  People have been discussing proposals and drafts which are bound to be somewhat wordy.
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FPVSteve

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Re: More regulation? Well less actually!
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2018, 01:14:02 PM »

It's funny how long that's taken - arguably the most dangerous time for this hobby was when it was in its infancy and people were flying home-made stuff made out of KKboards and 12x12 wooden rods.

Now we have reliable motors, reliable flight controllers, accurate GPS with return to home, better batteries ... and the sky is falling :D

We'll have fusion reactors onboard before the rules are put in place...
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BigT

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Re: More regulation? Well less actually!
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2018, 02:07:17 PM »

I am unclear as to whether or not this will apply to anyone who is a member of an association or people actually flying at designated sites.  If it's the former then simply by joining the BMFA as a country member then you will be able to ignore any of the new regulations and just fly within the existing rules, but this seems unlikely.

Looks pretty clear now according to the latest info from Dave Phipps. Flying an SUA within the framework of the BMFA, SAA, LMA and FPV U.K. will operate under National rules. A PIC or Operator Flying outside that framework is in the "Open Category" which means they are subject to EASA regs. I.E. compulsory registration and proof of competency and a default age of 18 years old to own and operate an SUA over 250 grams. The insider view is that the club framework will have some form of compulsory competency test.  We have seen another change in the BMFA compulsory test questions which now have a "clue" as to the correct answer. Plus a proposed re test for examiners and instructors.

Also in the same publication: An explanation of the new SUA and FPV height rules for leisure fixed wing and exemptions for glider guiders and the restrictions on FPV models over 3.5Kg  which now legally have to have a buddy box from operator to person in charge who is now legally responsible for the flight.
 
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FPVSteve

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Re: More regulation? Well less actually!
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 02:11:13 PM »

That's bizarre logic.

So someone incompetent can become "presumed competent" simply by paying the £20 FPVUK insurance fee and becoming a member of the association.

lol.
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ched

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Re: More regulation? Well less actually!
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 03:21:03 PM »

That's bizarre logic.

So someone incompetent can become "presumed competent" simply by paying the £20 FPVUK insurance fee and becoming a member of the association.

lol.
Lets face it 99% if not 100% of people here are fly sensibly and abide by the law (well spirit). It's the nutters who don't care what the laws are that are the problem. So even just a £20 fee will sort the wheat out from the chaff. The ones who don't care will carry on breaking the law and others who are sensible can just pay a £20 fee. Sounds good to me but I doubt it will be that simple  :D
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BigT

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Re: More regulation? Well less actually!
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2018, 10:30:36 AM »

That's bizarre logic.

So someone incompetent can become "presumed competent" simply by paying the £20 FPVUK insurance fee and becoming a member of the association.

lol.
I see your point, itís a valid one.

But letís look at how it would actually work in practice. A person joins a recognised body and in doing so has to give their details and in exchange will get insurance and in the case of the BMFA ( canít speak for any other body) will receive documents explaining the law and the limits of operation. I suspect that there may be some sort of online test. My reasoning for this is that the BMFA have just gone live with a new interactive web site where members can see their personal details and qualification following ďregistrationĒ. The body then passes that data on request to the CAA and DfT. The person can then operate the SUA to the limits of the new laws. This is almost identical to the current legislation in operation in Germany where the documents are downloaded after registration is completed before your number and ID card is issued.

Here, I suspect that If a person chooses not to belong to a national body they will have to register with the forthcoming national registration system going live in November 2019 ( wonder what sort of a cockup that will be) and will be issued documents same as Germany, but operation and ownership of an SUA will be restricted. I.E. plus 18 years old and 300 ft ASL. ( However a 14 year old can still legally own and operate a hangglider solo in the U.K. without instruction I may add)

Also worth mentioning that by then the police will have new powers to deal with unlawful or suspected unlawful use and ownership of SUA and equipment regardless of which type of registered user. This will include entry without warrant, seizure on suspicion and investigation of data storage.
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simondale

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Re: More regulation? Well less actually!
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2018, 07:53:12 PM »

Also in the same publication: An explanation of the new SUA and FPV height rules for leisure fixed wing and exemptions for glider guiders and the restrictions on FPV models over 3.5Kg which now legally have to have a buddy box from operator to person in charge who is now legally responsible for the flight.

Hi BigT

I don't think there's anything new there, is there?  The FPV exemption applies up to 3.5kg (and has done for several years).  For anything above that the ANO applies (ie it must be kept within direct unaided visual contact).  One way to satisfy the ANO is to use a buddy lead and have the person with visual line of sight be in charge.

All the best

Simon
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BigT

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Re: More regulation? Well less actually!
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 10:47:13 AM »

Hi Simon, I agree but what is new is that for the first time it is in black and white in the BMFA addendum to rules for 2019 along with regulations and the other exemptions that where hard won for members. I suspect that we will be operating under similar rules to those in Germany re registration, proof of competence and ownership.   For the majority of hobbyist Fixed Wing SUA pilots and operators flying at a registered club site or event and as a member of an organisation nothing will change. Paying your fee will result in getting a download of the rules and air law. It will be up to the individual to read and comply as ignorance of the law has never been a defence against prosecution in the U.K. 
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