FPV HUB
Advanced search  

News:

Who's Online
  • Dot Guests: 195
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:
* Site Sponsor
* Random Gallery Items
DSCF6007

Views: 1952
Posted by: [email protected]
in: Stuff
DSCI0821 1

Views: 860
Posted by: Njoro
in: FPV Stuff
DSCN1152

Views: 2073
Posted by: COKE32
in: FPV SPAIN
thorpe cloud derbyshire

Views: 1300
Posted by: mattydred
in: flight maps
* Latest Gallery Items
My Twin Dream

Views: 214
Posted by: Coyote
in: Coyote`s Album
Vortex 285

Views: 192
Posted by: Coyote
in: Coyote`s Album
Mini Talon Rebuild

Views: 209
Posted by: Coyote
in: Coyote`s Album
Mini 3D Gimbal on MTD

Views: 198
Posted by: Coyote
in: Coyote`s Album
Matek 405-Wing

Views: 196
Posted by: Coyote
in: Coyote`s Album
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5

Author Topic: UK Drone Registration Scheme  (Read 3535 times)

electrotor

  • Moderator
  • Air Vice-Marshal
  • *
  • Karma: 80
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3504
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2019, 10:22:39 AM »

Currently Facebook is awash with individual responses to the recent CAA bombshell. These responses cover the complete range from well measured and coherent to infantile babbling and downright insulting. Last night the BMFA, LMA, SAA & FPVUK held a meeting with advisers and have issued a joint letter which thoroughly sets out their, and indeed our position. I would encourage you to read it and take action as suggested. It really is time to act together and set aside any differences or personal beefs.

https://bmfa.org/Portals/0/CEO/CAA%20-%20Letter%20to%20Members%20-%2030042019V3.pdf

https://www.largemodelassociation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/CAA-Letter-LMA-Members.pdf

https://www.fpvuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/FPV-UK-Registration-Call-to-Action-1.pdf

https://www.saaweb.uk/news_page.html
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 11:10:32 AM by electrotor »
Logged
Natibus in luto, caput inter nubila.

urbanfpv

  • Flight Lieutenant
  • *
  • Karma: 4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 138
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2019, 11:55:12 AM »


The police do not need a warrant to enter premises to carry out an arrest under certain circumstances. For example: in an attempt to save a life or prevent injury to someone or serious damage to property or when there is reasonable belief that a criminal offence is being committed”. This is usually the “catch all” one commonly used. So driving up a farm track to investigate the illegal operation of a “drone”  would be allowed.

I'm sorry, but you've completely mis-interpreted this- you're referring to an arrest, not a search.  It would not be allowed without a warrant to search a private property.  The conditions for obtaining this warrant are that there is suspicion of a drone offence being committed.

Quote
This is usually the “catch all” one commonly used
Cite references to where this has been used please.

As I requested before, provide a link proving in law that police would be allowed to enter your property to search for drones and related equipment *without* a warrant.

This legistlation hasn't passed yet anyway regardless of what has been proposed.

And lets just clarify what the police can and can't do:

https://netpol.org/2014/06/12/police-raids/

So the only situations they can enter your property are: if they know a crime is being committed or if they are going to arrest you.

So if you're flying in a BMFA field without registering, then they cannot possibly know you are committing a crime because they a) don't know who you are and b) don't know if you're registered or not.  They therefore have no grounds to enter a BMFA club property without a warrant.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 04:24:19 PM by urbanfpv »
Logged

BigT

  • Nothing works !!
  • Air Commodore
  • *
  • Karma: 23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2847
  • I'm not deaf just thinking
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2019, 06:10:33 PM »

I'm sorry, but you've completely mis-interpreted this- you're referring to an arrest, not a search.  It would not be allowed without a warrant to search a private property.  The conditions for obtaining this warrant are that there is suspicion of a drone offence being committed.
Cite references to where this has been used please.

As I requested before, provide a link proving in law that police would be allowed to enter your property to search for drones and related equipment *without* a warrant.

This legistlation hasn't passed yet anyway regardless of what has been proposed.

And lets just clarify what the police can and can't do:

https://netpol.org/2014/06/12/police-raids/

So the only situations they can enter your property are: if they know a crime is being committed or if they are going to arrest you.

So if you're flying in a BMFA field without registering, then they cannot possibly know you are committing a crime because they a) don't know who you are and b) don't know if you're registered or not.  They therefore have no grounds to enter a BMFA club property without a warrant.

OK so I am not a keyboard warrior but I am prepared to clarify as follows. If the police suspect that a crime is in process they do not need a warrant to enter premises.

From your link "However, the police do not always require a search warrant.

    They can raid your home without a warrant if they are also arresting you or you are already under arrest (see below).

    The police also need no search warrant to stop a crime that is in progress, or to prevent a crime that they suspect is about to happen (such as a breach of the peace), or to save life or limb or prevent serious damage to property:

Therefore entry to private land under the suspicion that a crime is being committed is legal.

Case in point: Last July 3 police cars and a van  drove to a club patch on private land and 6 police officers interrogated 4 pensioners who where flying SUA and that FPV activity was underway and models where overflying the main A5 and above 500 feet into a controlled air space. This was reported to them by a "concerned member of the public". They searched the vehicles and kit, took names and addresses and asked for ID and proof that we where allowed on the land. I know this happened as I was one of the pensioners. No FPV was being flown, a line of site quad and several fixed wing models. There was FPV equipment in one of the members vehicles and this was searched and recorded. All the police officers had bodycams and objected when a member started to video them on is cell phone. I can assure you it was very unpleasant but legal as they had a genuine belief that a crime was in progress.

 
Logged
Favorite TV Series:The Sopranos
Favorite WW2 Movie's: Kelly's Heroes, Battle of Britain, Band of Bro

BigT

  • Nothing works !!
  • Air Commodore
  • *
  • Karma: 23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2847
  • I'm not deaf just thinking
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2019, 06:12:23 PM »

Currently Facebook is awash with individual responses to the recent CAA bombshell. These responses cover the complete range from well measured and coherent to infantile babbling and downright insulting. Last night the BMFA, LMA, SAA & FPVUK held a meeting with advisers and have issued a joint letter which thoroughly sets out their, and indeed our position. I would encourage you to read it and take action as suggested. It really is time to act together and set aside any differences or personal beefs.

https://bmfa.org/Portals/0/CEO/CAA%20-%20Letter%20to%20Members%20-%2030042019V3.pdf

https://www.largemodelassociation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/CAA-Letter-LMA-Members.pdf

Thanks for the links. I have done as much of that as is possible but my MP has stated that he is in favor of the new legislation as approaches to Luton Airport are in his "seat".


https://www.fpvuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/FPV-UK-Registration-Call-to-Action-1.pdf

https://www.saaweb.uk/news_page.html
Logged
Favorite TV Series:The Sopranos
Favorite WW2 Movie's: Kelly's Heroes, Battle of Britain, Band of Bro

big a

  • Flying officer
  • *
  • Karma: 2
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 60
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2019, 11:04:55 AM »

Some progress thanks to all those that have responded to the consultation and written letters/emails.

More still needed to keep the pressure on though.
https://bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2585/IMPORTANT-UPDATE-CAA-PROPOSALS-PLEASE-READ-SHARE
Logged

ched

  • Squadron Leader
  • *
  • Karma: 6
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2019, 12:44:58 PM »

Just for info 'Southport boy, 14, is youngest Brit to fly solo' OK so he did it in Canada as in UK you have to be 16!!!!!!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-merseyside-48150299/southport-boy-14-is-youngest-brit-to-fly-solo
So you can get a uk driving licence at 17, a pilots licence at 16 but to own a 'drone' you must be 18!!!
NUTS
Logged

Coyote

  • Tape Apprentice
  • Administrator
  • Marshal of the Royal Air Force
  • *
  • Karma: 315
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19681
    • My New Blog
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2019, 10:34:03 PM »

Logged
Education and schoolin is good, but FPV is gooder :)

BigT

  • Nothing works !!
  • Air Commodore
  • *
  • Karma: 23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2847
  • I'm not deaf just thinking
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2019, 10:25:55 AM »

Following my completion of the last but one consultation, myself and a club member have been invited to do a trial of the proposed online registration and testing program in London. I have written to the above links and apart from an auto generated reply from one, none of the others have bothered to even acknowledge the e mails.
Logged
Favorite TV Series:The Sopranos
Favorite WW2 Movie's: Kelly's Heroes, Battle of Britain, Band of Bro

FPVSteve

  • "The Gaffer Tape King"
  • Administrator
  • Marshal of the Royal Air Force
  • *
  • Karma: 275
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11982
  • I don't so much fly as get flown.
    • DroneFinder
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2019, 01:21:20 PM »

Can't you just do it over the internet? Why do you need to travel to London?
Logged

BigT

  • Nothing works !!
  • Air Commodore
  • *
  • Karma: 23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2847
  • I'm not deaf just thinking
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2019, 06:42:30 PM »

So I attended the testing of the prototype Online Registration system today at the consultancy in London, with the developers analysts present . Basically this is my thoughts ..there’s no check on i d. It’s not linked to ni number or any other official data base. Just like the EA rod license. it’s an open book test anyway so you could have the answers open on another device or tab whilst taking the test. At the moment and as I understood it today, there are 40 questions, 100% pass is required, and it can be taken as many times as necessary to get a pass. I found the layout hard to follow in places, especially when they mix up "Drone" "Model Airplane" "RC Toy". Illustrations where of "quads" no fixed wing, gliders etc. Especially the sections where you need to choose between Operator, Owner Operator, Under 18 Drone Pilot, Under 12 Operator not allowed, etc etc. Trust me I made full use of the opportunity to make these points. They seemed amazed that they should just call the system " SUA Owner and Pilot Registration" and forget the word Drone, take it out completely. Also, there is no other way to register except on line, and no plan at the moment for a foreign language version. No other way to pay except by card. I also picked up on other hints such as: As a BMFA examiner or show how would you check if the candidate was registered if they didnt have their registration with them? How would you feel about policing this system? There is no official supply of reg plates, numbers have to be a certain size and written on the outside of the model. Again the illustration was of a typical DJI Spark generic Quadcopter not a fixed wing model. The whole thing will take about 40 mins if the system doesnt crash. Also picked up that the CAA have had "thousands" of e mails questioning the 170,000 rising to 250,000 reg figure.  My impression is that the fee will rise to £50 pa as they mentioned the EA Rod license and the TV license figures. 
Logged
Favorite TV Series:The Sopranos
Favorite WW2 Movie's: Kelly's Heroes, Battle of Britain, Band of Bro

ched

  • Squadron Leader
  • *
  • Karma: 6
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2019, 08:07:40 PM »

Cheers for the update.
I think I read the other day that the BFMA are considering being the Operator of their members 'drones'. So only 1 x reg fee and  each member has to pass the test and stick BMFA reg number on their 'drones'!!!
That would reduce the number of paid licenses significantly!

I would expect they will have to provide a version in Welsh as well as English!!

Well done for taking your time to test the system and provide feedback.
Logged

BigT

  • Nothing works !!
  • Air Commodore
  • *
  • Karma: 23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2847
  • I'm not deaf just thinking
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2019, 09:21:14 PM »

Cheers for the update.
I think I read the other day that the BFMA are considering being the Operator of their members 'drones'. So only 1 x reg fee and  each member has to pass the test and stick BMFA reg number on their 'drones'!!!
That would reduce the number of paid licenses significantly!

I would expect they will have to provide a version in Welsh as well as English!!

Well done for taking your time to test the system and provide feedback.

Not quite. The LMA and BMFA are proposing that they become the operator and the member is then the Remote Pilot. That’s under consideration by the CAA/DfT.  Another less known fact is that the LMA has now registered as a Limited Company with the idea that if this Operator thing is accepted the liability is limited. Wise move.
Logged
Favorite TV Series:The Sopranos
Favorite WW2 Movie's: Kelly's Heroes, Battle of Britain, Band of Bro

ched

  • Squadron Leader
  • *
  • Karma: 6
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2019, 11:31:08 PM »

Cheers for the info. Much appreciated. At this rate the registration fee is going to end up in the hundreds of thousands per operator to enable the scheme costs to be covered  ;) I wonder how long it will last, like dog and cb radio licences, actually were cb actually legal until they changed the rules and threw the 40mhz rc people under the bus?

Anyway thanks for your work and the info.
Logged

electrotor

  • Moderator
  • Air Vice-Marshal
  • *
  • Karma: 80
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3504
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2019, 12:07:06 AM »

And part of the test should be :

Rearrange the following words into a well known phrase or saying - "a cock what up".

Not only Welsh but Gaelic too, both being native languages. We should also ask for a braille version just to test how stupid they are.
Logged
Natibus in luto, caput inter nubila.

FPVSteve

  • "The Gaffer Tape King"
  • Administrator
  • Marshal of the Royal Air Force
  • *
  • Karma: 275
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11982
  • I don't so much fly as get flown.
    • DroneFinder
Re: UK Drone Registration Scheme
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2019, 10:21:11 AM »

I'm sorry but am I the only person who thinks it's a pointless exercise if you can take the test as many times as you need in order to pass and can have the answers to hand?

They'd be better off setting up an educational website and having a "I've read and understand how to operate a drone" checkbox which assigns liability to you as a pilot. At least then people might actually take it in and not just focus on getting 40/40 on a "test".

As for it rising to £50 pa - good luck with that. It's a stealth tax and if people are moaning about £16.50, I can't imagine they'll be too happy about it tripling. It simply won't get paid.

Two things are going to happen:

1) lots of unregistered people risking a fine (and since they're flying illegally anyway, what's a few hundred meters more altitude ;) )
2) lots of people simply moving to sub-250g gear to bypass the regulations

... neither of which will do anything to increase or decrease safety (which is THE whole point of this whole charade).
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
 


* Recent Topics
Bandolicious by Lamaule
[Today at 09:19:15 PM]


Mfd att help needed by Coyote
[Today at 02:37:05 PM]


FPV Mission by FPVSteve
[Yesterday at 05:45:09 PM]


I'm Back by electrotor
[Yesterday at 10:52:47 AM]


Cloud Surfing by ched
[September 18, 2019, 01:37:55 PM]


Gore Cliffs by Gedswato
[September 18, 2019, 07:02:10 AM]


FrSky R9M....868mhz European Frequency. by ched
[September 16, 2019, 04:51:13 PM]


badger's Twinstar build by badger
[September 16, 2019, 03:58:45 PM]


FrSky x-lite S & R9M ? by ched
[September 14, 2019, 11:07:48 PM]


Robotic by Lamaule
[September 14, 2019, 07:33:49 PM]

* Keywords
fpvhub  fpv hub
first person view video piloting

rc r/c r.c. model aircraft flight pilot fpv piloting wings fly flying flight fuse fuselage aileron tail pan tilt tx rx vtx rtx receiver transmitter video radio control controlled headtracker fpvuk bfpvmfa fpv uk first person view video piloting fpv servo servos easystar easy star multiplex antenna VR1400 fatshark video goggles 2.4 5.8 1.2 900 ghz mhz uhf panel antenna circular fpv polarised tracker dbi 10mw 100mw 500mw camera osd fpvuk bfpvmfa fpv first person view video piloting downlink ezantenna tracker gps EzOSD current sensor tiny telemetry autopilot ccd gopro kx131 kx171 FY21 FY21A FY21AP II IMU oracle diversity processor video switcher fpvuk bfpvmfa fpv uk first person view video piloting insurance simulator delta wing glider funjet quadcropter helis heli helicopter electric nitro scratchbuild scratch build batteries battery 2s 3s 4s lipo lipos fpvuk first person view video piloting Antenna fpvhub  fpv first person view video piloting rc r/c r.c. model aircraft flight pilot fpv Airframe Artifical Horizon Auto pilot Av AWG AWU Bec Brownout Buddy box C rating CG Circular Polarized Data logger Dbi Dbm Dipole Diversity DVR Easycap EPO EPP Failsafe FM Freshnel zone Frequency Gain Ghz Goggles GPS Ground Station Gyro Head Tracker HD Hz Inverted Vee Jst LC Filter Lipo LUX Mah Mhz Omni OSD Pan Patch Platform Polarization Rssi RTH Servo Spotter Telemetry Tilt Tracker Transmitter TVL Ubec UHF Video Splitter Vrx Vtx Watts Yagi  fpv uk first person view video piloting rc r/c r.c. model aircraft flight pilot fpv

http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;xml http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=0 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=100 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=200 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=300 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=400 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=500 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=600 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=700 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=800 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=900 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=1000 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=1100 http://www.fpvhub.com/forum/index.php?action=sitemap;start=1200
* Disclaimer
The content, views and opinions expressed within this forum are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views, official policy or position of FpvHub. However, we reserve the right to remove or edit any content considered inappropriate.