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Author Topic: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.  (Read 2122 times)

English Turbines

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Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« on: June 12, 2019, 12:56:18 PM »

 Due to a particularly nasty individual in my Club, I now have to have an observer with me at all times if Im flying FPV. This includes both Fixed Wing and Multirotors.

 Been flying FPV on this Club site for more than 3 years now without incident, but this jealous individual (Committee Member) has finally got his way..He must be very pleased with himself.

Article 94 of the Air Navigation Order clearly states that :-
The remote pilot must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions.
In respect of an FPV flight (which includes the use of goggles or a monitor) :-
The remote pilot must have a competent observer, maintaining direct unaided visual contact with the model at all times.



 Of course, this means I have to stay within (unaided) visual contact of my observer when flying my quads, so that's going to be rather limiting to say the least. If you need to stay within LOS, then there is no point in flying a Quad FPV IMO.
  In fact I would argue that there are some Quad flyers cant even fly their Quads LOS..
  My Quad is at its safest when flown away from the Airstrip over Crop fields and away from other LOS Pilots, and I have explained the obvious to the Committee, but why let common sense prevail..?

 I will be looking for an alternate venue to go Quad flying now for sure....This is why I have a GPS equipped Quad TBH.

   Open to debate, would be interested to hear from others....The Fun Police are winning.

                                                                                                :vulture:


« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 01:19:10 PM by English Turbines »
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urbanfpv

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2019, 01:15:36 PM »

Don't fly at the club.. simples!

I'm not a BMFA member and never will be, but my friend is a member of the local club where they have banned outright flying of multirotors or flying anything FPV.  Such an inclusive environment!

English Turbines

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2019, 01:26:56 PM »

Don't fly at the club.. simples!

I'm not a BMFA member and never will be, but my friend is a member of the local club where they have banned outright flying of multirotors or flying anything FPV.  Such an inclusive environment!

 Hi m8,

  Not surprised at all, this Club actually banning FPV activity outright is playing right into the hands of the Fun Police, but I doubt they have even stopped to consider this at all TBH.

  Wait until is escalates, and they start bringing in new observer rules for LOS pilots operating inside BMFA affiliated Club Sites.

 Its the thin end of the wedge IMO...
                                                                                                :vulture:
                                                                                                 

 
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atomiclama

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2019, 02:12:15 PM »

That's one of the reasons I don't belong to a club or are a member of any of the organisations.

Can't see the benefit to any of them.

That's me Nobby No Mates standing in a corner of the field all on my own  ;D

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English Turbines

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2019, 02:28:24 PM »

That's one of the reasons I don't belong to a club or are a member of any of the organisations.

Can't see the benefit to any of them.

That's me Nobby No Mates standing in a corner of the field all on my own  ;D

 
 Hi m8,
             Yes, they are going to drive FPV (further) underground and the BMFA were quite happy to let that happen I suspect. But, its now escalating....

  As for this registration nonsense where ALL Model Pilots (including BMFA members flying in a Club LOS) have to register is proof of their intentions with the full knee jerk reaction in full swing. If the BMFA dont make a stand and tell them to  :censored:  right off its the thin end of the wedge IMO....
  For starters, the BMFA should outright refuse to give any information about their affiliated Clubs and their Membership listings....

 This is all because of the alleged incident at Stansted around Christmas where some idiot thought he saw a "Drone" and effectively they closed the entire Airport as nobody would take responsibility for NOT closing it.
   This country has gone to the dogs for sure IMO.

                                                                                                   :vulture:
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ched

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2019, 06:49:06 PM »

 
 Hi m8,
             Yes, they are going to drive FPV (further) underground and the BMFA were quite happy to let that happen I suspect. But, its now escalating....

  As for this registration nonsense where ALL Model Pilots (including BMFA members flying in a Club LOS) have to register is proof of their intentions with the full knee jerk reaction in full swing. If the BMFA dont make a stand and tell them to  :censored:  right off its the thin end of the wedge IMO....
  For starters, the BMFA should outright refuse to give any information about their affiliated Clubs and their Membership listings....

 This is all because of the alleged incident at Stansted around Christmas where some idiot thought he saw a "Drone" and effectively they closed the entire Airport as nobody would take responsibility for NOT closing it.
   This country has gone to the dogs for sure IMO.

                                                                                                   :vulture:
I am afraid it's way too late. Gov are intent on registration system for anything flying over 250 gms!!! BMFA and FPVUK etc, in my opinion didn't push hard enough, but some of them thought planes would be exempt!!!
My personal opinion is it's all about regulating the sub 400ft airspace so the likes of Amazon can pay to use it to deliver more stuff and avoid more tax.

As for BMFA handing data over, I think that would require a court order as it comes under data protection act.

There has be talk of BMFA acting as 'operator' and then it's members don't pay the £16.50 just pass an online test and stick the BFMA reg number on their crafts. But no idea if that will happen.

As for BFMA and fpv, when I looked you had to pass a LOS multi rotor (no stabilisation or gps) test then a specific fpv test and for fpv BMFA also mandated a spotter. I think there was an exemption for planes fpv same as they had a higher limit than the 120m/400ft ceiling for multi rotors.

It's all knee jerk reaction plus regulation to make money, stuff the hobbyists who have a great safety record.

Lets face it the people responsible for the gatwick incident (if there actually were drones) and the people using drones to drop illegal goods into prisons aren't going to register and put reg numbers on there crafts just because the law states so are they?

So stupid laws.............................only get followed by law abiding citizens anyway and change nothing.
Sorry rant over...... :)
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big a

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2019, 07:52:58 PM »



I am afraid it's way too late. Gov are intent on registration system for anything flying over 250 gms!!! BMFA and FPVUK etc, in my opinion didn't push hard enough, but some of them thought planes would be exempt!!!
My personal opinion is it's all about regulating the sub 400ft airspace so the likes of Amazon can pay to use it to deliver more stuff and avoid more tax.

As for BMFA handing data over, I think that would require a court order as it comes under data protection act.

There has be talk of BMFA acting as 'operator' and then it's members don't pay the £16.50 just pass an online test and stick the BFMA reg number on their crafts. But no idea if that will happen.

As for BFMA and fpv, when I looked you had to pass a LOS multi rotor (no stabilisation or gps) test then a specific fpv test and for fpv BMFA also mandated a spotter. I think there was an exemption for planes fpv same as they had a higher limit than the 120m/400ft ceiling for multi rotors.

It's all knee jerk reaction plus regulation to make money, stuff the hobbyists who have a great safety record.

Lets face it the people responsible for the gatwick incident (if there actually were drones) and the people using drones to drop illegal goods into prisons aren't going to register and put reg numbers on there crafts just because the law states so are they?

So stupid laws.............................only get followed by law abiding citizens anyway and change nothing.
Sorry rant over...... :)

A few errors in there. You dont have to pass any tests at all to fly anything as a BMFA member.

The spotter is not mandated by the BMFA, it is requirement to be lawful and insured. It is entirely reasonable for a club to insist anyone flying FPV has a spotter.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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FPVSteve

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2019, 08:05:50 PM »

I feel that the 250g rule is the only way forward - and the guy giving you grief can do one at that point.

Side note: little point in having BMFA membership if you fly < 250g too.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 08:08:51 PM by FPVSteve »
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English Turbines

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2019, 08:14:18 PM »

 As an aside, I have in fact passed my Multirotor A Test quite some time ago.....

  What pisses me off the most, is that if they insist my Observer keeps close visual contact while I am Quad flying, I may be restricted to flying within the boundary of the Airstrip, or even closer.  This for example will be potentially more hazardous than if I could have freedom to fly out over the Crop fields. The worst that would happen is the thing will disarm and fall into the crops. Been doing that out to 400 metres with buckets of range in hand for ages now.
 
  Ah well, at least I will be having a change of scene now if I can find somewhere I wont get hassled.

  I hate this country and its do gooders, those and the eternally offended, they are slowly strangling the life out of us.

                                                                                                :vulture:
 
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English Turbines

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2019, 08:20:23 PM »

I feel that the 250g rule is the only way forward - and the guy giving you grief can do one at that point.

Side note: little point in having BMFA membership if you fly < 250g too.

  Knowing how things work in this Country Steve, they will still insist on an observer, even if its under 250 grams.

 They regularly fly large petrol models in my Club, some over 7 kgs easy. Imagine one of those going Failsafe from 500 feet up...?  Oh, but no, my polystyrene Z84 is far more dangerous, what with its Autopilot should a Failsafe occur.

                                                                                                :vulture:

 

 
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FPVSteve

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2019, 08:22:20 PM »

Well it's either 250g or above 20kg .... 20kg might be interesting :P
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English Turbines

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2019, 08:36:10 PM »

 I wonder which boffin wrote this contradictory little Gem....?

(4) No acknowledgement of competency is to be issued in relation to— (a) small unmanned aircraft with a mass of less than 250 grams without their fuel but including any articles or equipment installed in or attached to the aircraft at the commencement of their flight, or (b) flights by small unmanned aircraft of that description.

  Sooooo is "fuel" classed as equipment attached to the aircraft...?....Or will we be flying without it?

  If your model weighs under 250 grams minus Lipo, does this mean you can fly FPV without an observer....?

                                                                                                :vulture:
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:22:59 PM by English Turbines »
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electrotor

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2019, 12:04:28 AM »


A few errors in there. You dont have to pass any tests at all to fly anything as a BMFA member.

The spotter is not mandated by the BMFA, it is requirement to be lawful and insured. It is entirely reasonable for a club to insist anyone flying FPV has a spotter.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Absolutely correct big a.
It never fails to amaze me how much misinformation gets spread around so I'm glad you chipped in there although it may not be what some people want to read.
Also relevant and in defence of the BMFA, they do not tell clubs how to run their affairs; this is up to the individual club, affiliated or otherwise. If you don't like how a club is run, leave it or try to change it from within.
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electrotor

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2019, 12:09:28 AM »

I wonder which boffin wrote this contradictory little Gem....?

(4) No acknowledgement of competency is to be issued in relation to— (a) small unmanned aircraft with a mass of less than 250 grams without their fuel but including any articles or equipment installed in or attached to the aircraft at the commencement of their flight, or (b) flights by small unmanned aircraft of that description.

  Sooooo is "fuel" classed as equipment attached to the aircraft...?....Or will we be flying without it?

  If your model weighs under 250 grams minus Lipo, does this mean you can fly FPV without an observer....?

                                                                                                :vulture:

I thought this had already been covered but here we go again.
The Lipo is like a fuel tank, so it's weight is counted. The fuel consists of the charge within it, which you would be hard pushed to measure.
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English Turbines

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Re: Flying FPV and the compulsory Observer rules.
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2019, 12:14:10 AM »


A few errors in there. You dont have to pass any tests at all to fly anything as a BMFA member.

The spotter is not mandated by the BMFA, it is requirement to be lawful and insured. It is entirely reasonable for a club to insist anyone flying FPV has a spotter.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

  What if the model is under 250 grams...?.....without a Lipo on it..?....Do we still need a Spotter?

     What are the specific exemptions in this 250 gram ruling..?  Does anyone know..?

                                                                                               :vulture:


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