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Author Topic: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.  (Read 6885 times)

BigT

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2019, 09:35:04 AM »

 Dry interesting, however, the DMARES is a legal requirement, it will be a personal choice whether to comply or not, just like RFL, Compulsory Vehicle Insurance and paying the council tax and Child Support.  The current backlash from the modelling community itís a storm in a tea cup compared to what will happen in July 2020. Last night I attended a club AGM, 34 members turned up, average age 60, 80% had no proper idea of Exemption Certs, no idea if they need to put reg numbers on planes they keep in storage, if grandkids needed to register, some even assumed that the BMFA would just do everything without being told to etc etc.

PLUS 100% new nothing about CAP 1789. http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP1789%20EU%20UAS%20Regulations-Guidance.pdf
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ORCA

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2019, 09:52:33 AM »

BigT, so how many of these do you think will stay in the hobby once the reality hits them? Then how many after they are hit by the reality of July 2020? Lastly, of the remaining few how many will stay once they see what's coming in 2022? Plus, to these disincentives one must add the undoubted increases in registration fees(model tax) that will add to the reduction in modelers. IMO it will be a gradual decline followed by a collapse as the numbers fall below the critical number required to sustain the hobby, both in clubs and retail.
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big a

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Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2019, 02:20:34 PM »

We have to remember we dont know what the reality of June next year is Artucle 16 of the EASA regs effectively means with the exception of registration it is possible, and i would syggest even probably that model flying in clubs is barely effected.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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BigT

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2019, 07:34:22 PM »

BigT, so how many of these do you think will stay in the hobby once the reality hits them? Then how many after they are hit by the reality of July 2020? Lastly, of the remaining few how many will stay once they see what's coming in 2022? Plus, to these disincentives one must add the undoubted increases in registration fees(model tax) that will add to the reduction in modelers. IMO it will be a gradual decline followed by a collapse as the numbers fall below the critical number required to sustain the hobby, both in clubs and retail.

I have a real feeling that you are correct. If you look at the demographics of the hobby its dying already, literally. At our AGM on Thursday we had 34 out 40 members present. The youngest was 55 the oldest 75 and this is a club that welcomes all and sundry from autogyros and hovercraft and over 7kg fixed wing, with a private site with hut and charging points etc.  As I explained the intricacy of the registration, exemption certificates, July 2020, etc I was met with puzzled looks. In 3 years I will be 70, I am still trying new things and will try not to give up but what do we do if club sites have to be certified by the CAA to determine what can be flown and by whom? Perhaps model flying will continue as we know it. I fly a bit in Germany and France and I can tell you its so different over there. All the clubs we fly at have hard and grass runways, get subbed by the local councils, brick club houses, flush toilets, electricity. Membership is cheaper than the UK. Our small club here is £178 p a including BMFA, thats abiut average in the Home Counties. About double the average in Germany and France.

PS
following the total confusion with exemptions and delayed registration through the BMFA etc and because I am a BMFA examiner and fly at public displays I elected to not delay, registered and took the really silly on line test. Job done.

 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 07:36:27 PM by BigT »
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ORCA

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2019, 08:21:39 PM »

The CAA's recently published plan for their 'final solution' to recreational drone flying. (download the .pdf)
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?catid=1&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=9307
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ched

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2019, 08:44:58 PM »

The CAA's recently published plan for their 'final solution' to recreational drone flying. (download the .pdf)
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?catid=1&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=9307
Cheers for posting. I found that clear as mud......

FPVSteve

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2019, 11:57:56 PM »

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BigT

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2019, 11:33:13 AM »

Donít worry, the BMFA are adamant that they will be given an exemption to operate outside the EASA legislation because they have a gentlemanís agreement that they will get a general exemption for members in June 2020. Their representative has posted elsewhere that is why the current exemptions expire in June 2020. So I take that to mean that regardless of model type approval and Subcategories of operation it will be Carry on Flying! 

This chap seems to have more of a realistic view
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 11:34:45 AM by BigT »
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big a

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2019, 10:23:49 AM »

Donít worry, the BMFA are adamant that they will be given an exemption to operate outside the EASA legislation because they have a gentlemanís agreement that they will get a general exemption for members in June 2020. Their representative has posted elsewhere that is why the current exemptions expire in June 2020. So I take that to mean that regardless of model type approval and Subcategories of operation it will be Carry on Flying! 

This chap seems to have more of a realistic view

Thats a gross misrepresentation of what was said.

EASA have made specific provision for model aircraft flying that takes place under the umbrella of a national association.

They have said
Quote
GENERAL
Unless differently provided by national regulation, a model aircraft club and association may obtain from the national competent authority an authorisation that is valid for all their members to operate UA according to conditions and limitations tailored for the club or association.
The model aircraft club and association will submit to the competent authority the procedures that all members are required to follow. When the competent authority is satisfied with the procedures, organisational structure and management system of the model aircraft club and association, it may provide an authorisation that defines different limitations and conditions from those in the UAS Regulation. The authorisation will be limited to the operations conducted within the authorised club or association and within the territory of the Member State of the authorised competent authority. The authorisation cannot exempt members of the club or association from registering themselves according to Article 14 of the UAS Regulation; however, it may allow a model club or association to register their members on their behalf.
The authorisation may also include operations by persons who temporarily join in with the activities of the club or association (e.g. for leisure during holidays or for a contest), as long as the procedures provided by the club or association define conditions acceptable to the competent authority.

I added to that by saying
Quote
Essentially with the exception of registration everything else is to be negotiated. The current exemptions give a very big clue as to what the CAA consider acceptable.

and

Quote
The quote is direct from EASA nothing suggesting the BMFA having more power than EASA, we were very lucky that the BMFA CEO managed to have enough influence to ensure there was specific provision in the EASA propsed regs to allow a specific provision for model flying to be arranged with the CAA rather than have model flying stuck in the Open categories.

Negotiating that provision which will be happening over the next 6 months is actually complying with EASA.
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BigT

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2019, 03:05:16 PM »

Mr Symons lets just agree that you have an alternative agenda and biased opinion of European law and the power that the BMFA may have over the DfT, CAA, EU and EASA and take a delight in trying to undermine anyone who has a different point of view, expresses any criticism of the BMFA  or may have different intel. But you are an employee of the BMFA so why would you bite the hand that feeds you.

Please consider this:  you are not the only person on the planet that has contacts or family members placed in positions of security or power within governing and regulating bodies in this country and others and privy to information not generally available to the general public. If you would take another look at the original video that was tagged it is mainly about the OPEN category of UAV operation for financial gain and the ending of the PfCO. As other have already commented there are very sound reasons why it may be better to be regulated in that way. 

" The authorisation will be limited to the operations conducted within the authorised club or association and within the territory of the Member State of the authorised competent authority. 
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big a

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2019, 05:19:24 PM »

Mr Symons lets just agree that you have an alternative agenda and biased opinion of European law and the power that the BMFA may have over the DfT, CAA, EU and EASA and take a delight in trying to undermine anyone who has a different point of view, expresses any criticism of the BMFA  or may have different intel. But you are an employee of the BMFA so why would you bite the hand that feeds you.

Please consider this:  you are not the only person on the planet that has contacts or family members placed in positions of security or power within governing and regulating bodies in this country and others and privy to information not generally available to the general public. If you would take another look at the original video that was tagged it is mainly about the OPEN category of UAV operation for financial gain and the ending of the PfCO. As other have already commented there are very sound reasons why it may be better to be regulated in that way. 

" The authorisation will be limited to the operations conducted within the authorised club or association and within the territory of the Member State of the authorised competent authority. 
It's not my opinion of European Law. Its EASA's opinion, it was a direct quote from EASA I produced above. I know the video was about Open category UAV operation for commercial gain. Which it's why its important to inform members that it's contents is highly unlikely to relate to non-commercial UAV operation under the umbrella of National associations.

Not sure why you object to your opinions being challenged or how providing further information is undermining anyone.
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ORCA

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2019, 10:03:34 PM »

Well I for one absolutely refuse to pay the 'model flying tax' or apply for a pilot exemption on my BMFA achievement rating. I never did CL(totally exempt) when a young(er) modeller so I'm going to try it in 2020. Then comes June/July it will be interesting to see what 'shakes' out of any discussions and maybe get a handle on what will be the situation in June/July 2022 re electronic conspicuity etc. Another indicator will be the increase(its never going down) in the 'model flying tax'. I wish I was younger and could join in with the sub 70kg foot launched motorised para gliders I often see on the beach near me.(NO pilot or air craft regs what so ever and no 'TAX'. Only than it must be sub 70kg and foot launched)
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Tim Chambers

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2019, 12:55:31 AM »

It doesn't have to be foot launched.
" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/youtube][/youtube]

http://www.peabee.co.uk.flylight.co.uk/peabee-2/
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 12:57:53 AM by Tim Chambers »
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BigT

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2019, 07:07:00 PM »

Well I for one absolutely refuse to pay the 'model flying tax' or apply for a pilot exemption on my BMFA achievement rating. I never did CL(totally exempt) when a young(er) modeller so I'm going to try it in 2020. Then comes June/July it will be interesting to see what 'shakes' out of any discussions and maybe get a handle on what will be the situation in June/July 2022 re electronic conspicuity etc. Another indicator will be the increase(its never going down) in the 'model flying tax'. I wish I was younger and could join in with the sub 70kg foot launched motorised para gliders I often see on the beach near me.(NO pilot or air craft regs what so ever and no 'TAX'. Only than it must be sub 70kg and foot launched)

You may find this video interesting as it a simple breakdown of the legislation. Especially interesting at 3:57 when he explains more about the subcategory A3. Also, in the light of recent postings on other forums re the Lidl and Aldi et al  ďdronesĒ, and the failure of retailers  to advise  buyers of the Current legislation it has further explanations of the type approval rating that will need to be displayed on the Retail packaging of UAS and SUAV. At least someoneís trying to inform us of the practical implications.


 [/youtube]

« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 10:15:34 PM by BigT »
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ched

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Re: Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.
« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2019, 07:12:23 PM »

You may find this video interesting as it a simple breakdown of the legislation. Especially interesting at 3:57 when he explains more about the subcategory A3. Also, in the light of recent postings on other forums re the Lidl and Aldi ďdronesĒ, it has further explanations of the type approval rating that will need to be displayed on the Retail packaging of UAS and SUAV. At least someoneís trying to inform us of the practical implications.
I don't think the link is working!
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