Nice. :)
(http://s4.postimage.org/xvwkb14vd/bilde.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xvwkb14vd/)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/miniature-surveillance-helicopters-help-protect-front-line-troops (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/miniature-surveillance-helicopters-help-protect-front-line-troops)
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130204/DEFREG01/302040004/Britain-Unveils-Photos-Nano-UAVs-Use-Afghanistan?odyssey=nav%7Chead (http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130204/DEFREG01/302040004/Britain-Unveils-Photos-Nano-UAVs-Use-Afghanistan?odyssey=nav%7Chead)
Wow! £20m for 160 units....that's £125k each!! They should have looked on amazon.
£125,000 each, not bad work if you can get it
(£20,000,000 contract, for 160 units)
:o
X4 FPV edition would have done the same job (at 100 quid) for 0.08% of the cost. And probably done it better too.
Got to love the military and their ability to spend millions on utter shite!
Gundummy has the best sig on this forum, hands down!
Geez.. I've seen more impressive aircraft fall out of the bottom of a cornflakes packet!
Not even camo paint?
Ground station has that '80s Amstrad look.
:laugh:
Quote from: Andy66 on February 04, 2013, 07:45:03 PM
Military is always the same, You could buy these things private for couple of hundred quid. I used to maintain a mk44 mini gun that had an optical sight on it, I could buy it from the states for £300 but the company charged the Navy £15,000 a piece and they were crap.
A wiper blade for the Lynx helicopter made by Bosch, for me £23 at halfords, for the Navy £800. It had the same code imprinted on the rubber as for the BMW mini.
The list goes on and on and on and I bet these small pieces of shit that they now are buying will be as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
Agreed the price appears hugely inflated but when you start to analyse where the money goes it's not quite so bad.
1. Profit - the companies who make these things are not altruists, in fact quite the opposite because they know they can milk defense departments. Companies which underprice are looked upon with suspicion.
2. Anything for aviation use has to be tested, approved and issued with the appropriate paperwork. This is going to cost money. I can get a cooling fan for an equipment rack from my local Maplin store but it does not have approval, test certs and other paperwork. It might be basically the same fan but I can't tell purchasing to nip down the road and get a few. They would not even be allowed in Stores.
3. Anything for military aviation has even more hoops to go through. That means more costs.
4. Companies will try to sell you more than you actually need. It's only the rubber blade on your wiper you actually need to replace as there is nothing wrong or worn about the metal support. Try getting just the rubbers these days, if you pardon the expression! And as for these aero-blades - there is even less in the manufacture yet they are double the price and people pay for them out of their own pockets. BTW don't you know Halfords is an expensive place to buy parts so if you buy from them you are doing pretty much the same as the Navy, albeit on a smaller budget.
5. It is highly unlikely that the unit price of these wee helicopters is simply the contract cost divided by the number of units. There will be a whole lot of product support and spares to go with that, as well as training and upgrades.
6. 160 is not a lot compared to say Eflite's sales of MSRs and the like, so unit cost is going to be higher.
7. They were developed by a Norwegian company. If you have ever been to Norway and gone out for a drink, you need a second drink to get over the cost of the first one.
;D
Quote from: Andy66 on February 04, 2013, 10:46:32 PM
Another thing, armed forces use draper tools but then pay through the roof on a tool that has no extra test made, break easily and very poor reliability. If i can remember correct a 1/4 inch drive ratchet was about £100 to replace and on average we would go through 6 a month on just the small arms department.
These tools were so unreliable that when we went on the iraq tour we were advised to purchase our own good quality tools as most of the time it was too dangerous to fly a chinook out to us just to drop cheap tools to maintain what kept us alive.
Draper??? :o
OK for the home mechanic doing occasional work. All our guys have their own Snap-On kits and the company buys Snap-On & Facom for shared use.
Draper??? I can hardly believe it. :o
Pass me a drink. I'll even pay Norwegian prices. ;D
Quote from: aitch on February 04, 2013, 10:55:27 PM
if 20 members on here gor together spent a month to design and develop a superior product and to produce 20 of them each even after costs they'd be up better part of £980,000 each ...
then they can go to norway and drink as much as they like
Aitch :laugh:
Kickstarter challenge??? ;D
Here's a bit more about the actual model and base station so you know what you'll be up against.
http://www.proxdynamics.com/products/pd_100_prs/ (http://www.proxdynamics.com/products/pd_100_prs/)
Failing that get your job applications into these moneymaking companies. It might be quite cool to design and manufacture a nano UAV then retire on the profits.
http://www.marlboroughcomms.com/NewsArticle.aspx?data=d9IrLgGUAYJamTfnBX4tdQ%253d%253d (http://www.marlboroughcomms.com/NewsArticle.aspx?data=d9IrLgGUAYJamTfnBX4tdQ%253d%253d)
http://www.proxdynamics.com/news/the_black_hornet_featured_in_the_news/ (http://www.proxdynamics.com/news/the_black_hornet_featured_in_the_news/)
Some more stuff.
Flybarless
Carbon blades
Outrunner motor
That's gotta be worth a few quid alone. ;D
They only sell to governments & government agencies though. I expect these are the only people who can afford them anyway.
(http://s9.postimage.org/qwfu23z7v/PD_100.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qwfu23z7v/)
QuoteThe development of the PD-100 Black Hornet PRS started in April 2008
To be fair they would have been fairly impressive in 2008. In 2013, not so much.
Personally - if the British Armed Forces 'need' something to "look around corners", I could save them a fortune.
For 'only' £90,000 each (includes slight profit) and in stock now -
http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/400390832831?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&cbt=y (http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/400390832831?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&cbt=y)
Good basic solution AND free post & packing but they may not do international shipping to Afghanistan. ;D
I would however point out a serious weakpoint in the design. What happens if the corner is more than 12" away or if there is more than one corner? I can feel an escalation of costs creeping in and the price might go up to £30, or more. Cancel Trident. ;D ;D
My company is developing a telescopic, triple-jointed version to address your point of view. Patents have been applied for and the target price will only show a modest increase on the Mk I to £98.000 - DELIVERED.
Furthermore, please be advised of our complimentary specialised weaponry that can negate the need to even look round a corner:-
Shoot-Round Corner Gun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48ozk9-z-m4#)
nudge, nudge - wink, wink
Quote from: wgt40w on February 05, 2013, 04:54:44 PM
My company is developing a telescopic, triple-jointed version to address your point of view. Patents have been applied for and the target price will only show a modest increase on the Mk I to £98.000 - DELIVERED.
I'll take 160 then. :D
What about spares backup, instruction manuals and training courses? Shall we say another £22 each and we have a nice round figure of £120. ;D
I have a contact in the US Department of Defense if you would like an introduction. I would of course expect a little "commision". Shall we say 20% of all sales? :D
It's good to do business with you.
The specs of this thing is fairly impressive though (not £125,000 a pop impressive mind).
1000m range, and 25 minutes battery life. Also has a moveable camera. I'd be interested to know what the resolution of the camera is.
Incidentally, how easy would it be to make out the shape of a person (as opposed to say, a bin) from altitude in an unknown location, with the wind blowing your 16gram FPV plane around.
Surely a micro quad would have been a far superior option...
Quote from: wgt40w on February 05, 2013, 04:59:02 PM
Furthermore, please be advised of our complimentary specialised weaponry that can negate the need to even look round a corner:-
Shoot-Round Corner Gun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48ozk9-z-m4#)
nudge, nudge - wink, wink
Does it use bendy bullets?
Quote from: Steve W on February 05, 2013, 05:03:04 PM
The specs of this thing is fairly impressive though (not £125,000 a pop impressive mind).
1000m range, and 25 minutes battery life. Also has a moveable camera. I'd be interested to know what the resolution of the camera is.
Incidentally, how easy would it be to make out the shape of a person (as opposed to say, a bin) from altitude in an unknown location, with the wind blowing your 16gram FPV plane around.
Yeah but who would be a bloody spotter in Afghanistan?
"Yes I can still see the model."
"OK, but the Taliban can now see you. At least I can hide behind this mud wall."
"Oh, so they can."
"Bang"
"Ouch"
"Damn this CAA exemption."
;D
Quote from: electrotor on February 05, 2013, 05:07:29 PM
Yeah but who would be a bloody spotter in Afghanistan?
"Yes I can still see the model."
"OK, but the Taliban can now see you. At least I can hide behind this mud wall."
"Oh, so they can."
"Bang"
"Ouch"
"Damn this CAA exemption."
;D
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the CAA rules with regard to 'Spotters' for Micro 16gram FPV's allow for the use of binoculars ??
Quote from: Steve W on February 05, 2013, 05:03:04 PM
Surely a micro quad would have been a far superior option...
Or a bigger quad and you could drop broken Draper tools on the Taliban from a great height. ;D
Quote from: wgt40w on February 05, 2013, 05:13:27 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the CAA rules with regard to 'Spotters' for Micro 16gram FPV's allow for the use of binoculars ??
Dunno about that but you would still have to stick your head up above the wall.
How about a Mk2 periscope with binoculars built in? That way the nano heli deal could still go through but you could also flog them your periscope and everyone would be happy.
:D
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Quote from: Steve W on February 05, 2013, 05:22:55 PM
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
You just don't know when to stop, do you? ;D ;D ;D
Do you think Simon would stock these?
We do seem to be giving him a lot of ideas !!
Quote from: wgt40w on February 05, 2013, 05:24:39 PM
Do you think Simon would stock these?
We do seem to be giving him a lot of ideas !!
Well personally I'm disappointed he's not entered into this properly serious commercial opportunity.
Probably he's not joined in for fear of us demanding commission fees !!
PS.... to eliminate the enemy and make proper use of Draper tools whilst fleecing the taxpayer and paying for his Caribbean Island. What a waste of a business opportunity.
;D
I've got a mixture of Facom, Britool and some Snap-On inherited from guys who have retired. The Facom tube wrench is a brillliant tool and the Snap-On stuff is damn near unbreakable.
(http://s17.postimage.org/96m492he3/75series_400.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/96m492he3/)
I think this is a new video about these wee critters. Very compact base station.
Mini drone gives UK troops extra eyes 06.02.13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSQwb4p09wE#ws)
So if it's windy, they get out a telescopic ladder and peer over the top of the compound wall I guess.
Very defeatist Andy if i may say so! :D
Quote from: Andy66 on February 11, 2013, 09:19:34 PM
The US fly real drones (not toy ones the Uk now have) and even they are no good, the only way to beat the taliban is to remove our soldiers from the dust pit. You can have as many gadgets as you like out there and they will still kill us. The only gadget I have seen that scares the living sh*t out of them is the AH64 Apache
Very few of us will have had your experiences so we can only really comment from the comfort and safety of our cosy little houses, as can the politicians who make some very questionable decisions. Personally I just can't see a resolution to that conflict as the sides are too far apart to even begin agreeing of anything except that bombs and bullets kill.
Now.... Apache can only fly if the weather conditions are right .... ICBMs can fly anytime ;D
Push the button and bomb Afghan forward into the stone age! :P
The Apache is truly worthy of fear... That thing is just an incredibly capable killing machine.
History has proven it several times though - technological superiority counts for little in the face of a determined and capable force waging guerrilla style war.
They aren't capable of defeating the other side in the traditional sense, but are near impossible to eradicate and just wage a war of attrition until the loss/public opinion/expense becomes too great and their enemies leave...
A pistol is an incredibly efficient killing machine...as is a knife!
More wars have been won through technical superiority...than technical inferiority..
Any war can be won. It depends on how much you'd like to spend...
That's my 2 pence! ;D