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any ideas or criticism for my pages are much appreciated
lots of new equipment on the way to me including 2 x tbs disco's with upgraded motors, carbon props and Gopro hero3 HD camera ;D
i have had a request to film and take pictures of offroad motorbikes, quadbikes and 4x4's at desert offroad in derby/notts so if any1 would like to come along a help me fly, film and edit video that would be great
i love flying fpv and taking pictures and videos but do not have bnucs etc (yet) and still have loads to learn so i will not be charging people for footage.
roll on the good weather, have fun and fly safe :funfunfun:
Over and out
Squadron leader mattydred
TeamSkyOpsUK
You do if you want to charge people for the work, CAA class you as a commercial operator which is subject to different rules and bollocks unfortunately. Doesn't necessarily have to be BNUC-S though.
Quote from: Steve W on May 13, 2013, 12:51:07 PM
You do if you want to charge people for the work, CAA class you as a commercial operator which is subject to different rules and bollocks unfortunately. Doesn't necessarily have to be BNUC-S though.
Think you will find that BNUC-S as organised by EuroUSC is the only CAA recognized commercial licence in the Uk and in quite a few other countries for that matter.
PS For those of you proposing to film at motocross events etc. - for free.
What insurance have you got to cover any incidents involving your craft crashing into anyone on the ground ?
I know it's probably unlikely to happen - but if it did and you hadn't any insurance - stand by for the 'book' to be thrown at you.
Quote from: wgt40w on May 13, 2013, 01:50:29 PM
PS For those of you proposing to film at motocross events etc. - for free.
What insurance have you got to cover any incidents involving your craft crashing into anyone on the ground ?
I know it's probably unlikely to happen - but if it did and you hadn't any insurance - stand by for the 'book' to be thrown at you.
i think it will be quite difficult to crash into some1 on the ground cuz we dont fly over people ;0)
just a thought, if you were invited by someone to film an event for your own use would there be anything to stop you selling it at a later date?
Question 2 : supposing you happen to capture something on video that was of interest to the media could you sell it even if you hadn't intended to capture it originally?
Quote from: Charliewalker on May 13, 2013, 02:30:11 PM
just a thought, if you were invited by someone to film an event for your own use would there be anything to stop you selling it at a later date?
Question 2 : supposing you happen to capture something on video that was of interest to the media could you sell it even if you hadn't intended to capture it originally?
good questions charlie
i think if you dont have any of the relevant commercial licenses then you cant sell any footage at all.
im sure some1 will be along to confirm of correct me if im wrong
cheers
matty
Quote from: mattydred on May 13, 2013, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: Charliewalker on May 13, 2013, 02:30:11 PM
just a thought, if you were invited by someone to film an event for your own use would there be anything to stop you selling it at a later date?
Question 2 : supposing you happen to capture something on video that was of interest to the media could you sell it even if you hadn't intended to capture it originally?
good questions charlie
i think if you dont have any of the relevant commercial licenses then you cant sell any footage at all.
im sure some1 will be along to confirm of correct me if im wrong
cheers
matty
If you accept payment in cash or for Goods in exchange for footage it is considered work.
Legal requirement becomes BNUC-S course and flight tests.
(or equivalent if you can find such a course)
To fly with Model insurance is also thrown out of the window at that point and you require the insurance's to go with it all.
What you agree with the client is theres as such although I suspect what you could sell on to a media company without permission maybe covered in the contract with the client.
then what you do is you make them some tea - and get paid as a tea boy....then any footage you take, you give them for free! ;)
LOLz
Keukpa
Quote from: Andy66 on May 13, 2013, 05:30:37 PM
Crash jobs init, no one has to know anything if you are or are not being payed.
You do the filming for free then post up example pics then you get payed if someone wants a pic through PayPal just like guys make and sell things on here, sooo you don't need no bnucs.
Humm....
but then a cash guy starts undercutting a person that went out of there way and did the BNUCS course...
and what do you think will happen ??
what would do if you did the course and was all legal and someone was undercutting and stealing work from you ?
so what would you do then ?
dog eat dog im afraid. you choose to do the course
Thats not what I asked
I asked if you did the course and someone was under cutting you, that hadn't done the course what would you do.
and for the record you can earn x amount any way before Tax and Revenue even get involved with selling stuff like small ebay stores etc etc
Quote from: MarkLincs on May 13, 2013, 06:19:02 PM
Thats not what I asked
I asked if you did the course and someone was under cutting you, that hadn't done the course what would you do.
nothing - the same as you
Quote from: mattydred on May 13, 2013, 06:22:56 PM
Quote from: MarkLincs on May 13, 2013, 06:19:02 PM
Thats not what I asked
I asked if you did the course and someone was under cutting you, that hadn't done the course what would you do.
nothing - the same as you
Oh please don't believe that
Quote from: MarkLincs on May 13, 2013, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: mattydred on May 13, 2013, 06:22:56 PM
Quote from: MarkLincs on May 13, 2013, 06:19:02 PM
Thats not what I asked
I asked if you did the course and someone was under cutting you, that hadn't done the course what would you do.
nothing - the same as you
Oh please don't believe that
so what you going to do when people who havnt done the course start under cutting you.
its not about money for me. its a hobby i enjoy and i do it for free so no problem for me and it useally end up costing me money
theres the difference your doing it as a hobby take no money so no issue
I got confused see I thought we were talking as if was a commercial thing
my bad
Matty I think he would do what anyone who has invested time and money into doing things the "right way" would... He would report the offending party to the CAA. Why would anyone sit idly by and watch someone steal their business by operating illegally?
As said, doing it as a hobby and for no financial reward is a completely different story... If the same rules apply as per real aviation ( i dont know if thats the case?) then you can receive some compensation for costs. the example would be where you rent a plane and fly with 3 other friends, they are allowed to pay you 3/4 of the cost of renting the plane/fuel etc iirc. Anyway, when operating for no reward there is no need for a qualification and I believe the FPVUK/RCHA/BMFA insurance would cover you provided you had permission and were flying in accordance with their policies.
thanks for all the info guys i learned abit today which was my aim when starting the thread.
i did make it clear on the youtube and facebook page that i am non commercial, non profiting and do not charge any money whatsoever.
i agree with you guys that it is unfair that people that arnt certified are making money from selling footage and should be reported to the relevant authorities.
it cost me money when i want to go out and film and im currentley out of work and i still dont charge for footage - its not good enough anyway yet - hope its gunna get better lol - as i said i still got loads to learn and still waiting for tbs disco and gopro3.
i would love to do this as a career and get paid for it. bnuc-s or whatever in the future maybe.
any info on the bnuc-s would be great. how much, how long does it take to achieve cert, where are the places that train and do the exams/test etc?
cheers
matty
Quote from: wgt40w on May 13, 2013, 01:46:49 PM
Quote from: Steve W on May 13, 2013, 12:51:07 PM
You do if you want to charge people for the work, CAA class you as a commercial operator which is subject to different rules and bollocks unfortunately. Doesn't necessarily have to be BNUC-S though.
Think you will find that BNUC-S as organised by EuroUSC is the only CAA recognized commercial licence in the Uk and in quite a few other countries for that matter.
EuroUSC is the only current recognised provider, but there's nothing stopping anyone from setting up their own and petitioning the CAA for approved status. So, like I said, you don't HAVE to use EuroUSC - you could put your own operation procedures etc etc in place to suit your own business.
The only other thing EuroUSC BNUC-S has going for it is that it is becoming a "recognised" standard by industry which in effect gives it a monopoly on the whole situation - not great in terms of the future.
Mark you should declare all earnings to HMRC - Essentially if you earn over the threshold then start selling stuff for profit you're obliged to report your income so your tax code can reflect it... of course if it's cash in hand...........
I do personally see the BNUC-S as a waste of time though the more research I've done into it.
It seems to me that the CAA have no business in regulating what is essentially photography/videography using an aerial platform, in much the way that they'd get the finger if I had to write an ops manual for having a camera on the end of a 100foot pole (which could snap, and cause injury to anyone below - standard liability insurance would cover that, and should extend to any other means of photography too IMO).
Then again that doesn't raise money for the private company that EuroUSC is....................................................
Quote from: Steve W on May 13, 2013, 07:33:26 PM
It seems to me that the CAA have no business in regulating what is essentially photography/videography using an aerial platform, in much the way that they'd get the finger if I had to write an ops manual for having a camera on the end of a 100foot pole
Unfortunately they do, and while you can moan about the fact, there's nothing you can do.
The difference with your pole example (or perhaps more professionally, a cherry picker ;) ) is that it's ultimately a ground based piece of equipment.
I wonder what a tethered balloon counts as.... Not looked into it myself.
Yea but the dangers are the same (something falling on your head).
Amen to that.
Quote from: Andy66 on May 13, 2013, 08:25:45 PM
So does that mean we can report people on here who make fpv parts and charge for them but do not declare the money to the tax as as the end of the day they are stealing money from the people who invested and sell things legally?
As said earlier its a dog eat dog world weather you like it or not people will crap on you. Myself I don't like this way of living but the cost of living is going up due to our corrupt government so man has to do anything he can to make a few bob so he can slightly enjoy life.
If you wanted to and felt your business was suffering as a result I guess you could...
It's a bit harder to know what anyone is doing as regards declaring money to the tax man though, and its doubtful they would care given the small nature of such transactions... If you feel particularly aggrieved though there's nothing to stop you trying.
If someone who is legally sorted sees someone who is operating "illegally" taking away his/her business, why wouldn't he report them... It's exactly as you say - dog eat dog. He has a stick with which to beat his "competition" round the head, you can be sure he'll use it. If you operate such a business without the required qualifications then you have to accept its a possibility you will get caught - risk vs reward I guess!
Steve - I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you lol, I'm saying its a simple fact that they do. I'd be quite happy if the CAA had nothing to do with airspace below 400ft outside of say 4-5km of an airport, it's not the case unfortunately.
Out of interest have there been any prosecutions against non-commercial operators operating commercially?
Just asking, not meaning to cause a meltdown...
No idea Steve... I guess it's still all quite new.
I know in America many companies received cease and desist orders from the FAA. Don't know if any ended up in court.... Haven't heard of any cases in the UK yet personally.
Andy - just to be clear I have no stake in this. I don't operate any business involving drones and don't have a BNUS-C... While I may do so in future it certainly wouldn't be aerial photography. So I'm just calling it as I see it - if someone who has jumped through all the hoops comes across someone operating on the sly, you can be sure they'll do what they need to in order to protect their investment. That was in answer to the question asked earlier in the thread.
I would be careful about your assumption though, as its not comparing apples to apples. In this case it is more akin to reporting someone driving without a license to the DVLA - do you still think nothing would happen? As far as I'm aware the CAA are duty bound to investigate if they receive a report whether they particularly want to or not. The amount of money changing hands is also of no relevance to them as that is not their concern... whether its £100 or £100,000 the rule that has been broken is the same one - operating commercially without a license.
Personally I would guess they'd usually just issue a warning first.... But that is just a guess, and doesn't constitute legal advice ;)
On the course I was on this came up
Companies and people have had chats shall we say
There either bnucs now or not doing aerial work...
They ask nicely 1st....
Not sure about the 2nd time for some reason.
Who told you that though - the EuroUSC people? Can't see any motive there :P
The problem with that though Andy is that it's all groovy until the shit hits the fan and you cause an "issue" involving insurance.
99.999% of the time you'll be lucky, but that tiny percentage could be the difference between you owning your own house and losing it in a bankruptcy court...
Pretty much like FPV then, cos none of us are insured without a spotter...
I still think insurance should cover commercial operations without the CAA meddling under a certain weight but I don't make the rules - if I did, there'd be lapdancing every Thursday.
Quote from: Steve W on May 13, 2013, 11:09:22 PM
but I don't make the rules - if I did, there'd be lapdancing every Thursday.
Steve for prime minister? Got my vote...
BNUCS I have Googled this but got no results?? can someone fill me in? on the details?
Thanks
BNUC-S
http://www.eurousc.com/luass/pilots.html (http://www.eurousc.com/luass/pilots.html)
Great thread, very interesting as I've been looking into the commercial use filming with FPV rigs.
The current people I'm seen who are flying commercially have brought an all in kit from a company (Eg HeliGuy) and have completed a BNUC-S through them. This is with no previous knowledge of these systems or flying in general I should add... scary really.
Need to do a lot more research to find if this qualification is really necessary, especially as I imagine it is £££
From what I've researched the correct insurance is a must, and ideally the BNUC-S to be 'safe'. This is as well as paying tax and what not as a business.
Either way a correct answer is up to interpretation from what I've seen.
You'll probably find insurance companies want the bnucs as well for commercial work
Just a thought ... what is the situation if you are lucky enough to film some idiot doing something really stupid and got your £250 for sending it in to "You've been Framed" ? ... lol :laugh:
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Can_Kill on June 16, 2013, 03:54:53 PM
Just a thought ... what is the situation if you are lucky enough to film some idiot doing something really stupid and got your £250 for sending it in to "You've been Framed" ? ... lol :laugh:
Jim
Well thats a interesting point, I surpose something caught while FPV'ing is not a commercial venture its accidental capture. So your not out to make money although in the rule is the rule then yes its very interesting...
its not like going to someone and working out a payed deal before hand where your seeking the work
since you make money out of it it is seen as valuable consideration - so it is aerial work.
Therefore you need a permission.
same goes for example if you manage to get some footage that could be sold to newspapers or tv (video of a flooding e.g.).
It's hypothetical though, cause the film production companies know the rules and won't buy anything from a non licensed organization.
If they don't know you they might ask at the CAA (which is handling the permissions for aerial work) if the pilot is licensed for aerial work.
Bottom line, if you work for more than a pint of beer, you're running the risk that someone will ask questions (especially if you promote it as a business).
Quote from: Steve W on May 13, 2013, 10:20:12 PM
Out of interest have there been any prosecutions against non-commercial operators operating commercially?
Just asking, not meaning to cause a meltdown...
Yes
Got any links?