I've received my Venturi FPV and very excited to get building. I have searched ebay for carbon fibre vinyl and theres plenty of it out there, question is what type should I get? Can anyone recommend a good supplier?
I've just bought a few metres of stuff from a place called MDP supplies. The price was pretty good, and the film is meant for vehicle wrapping (means it has little tiny grooves int he adhesive to let out airbubbles over time, and is designed to be used outdoors etc). The stuff I have is on the top of this list:
http://www.mdpsupplies.co.uk/vwcarbonfibre.asp (http://www.mdpsupplies.co.uk/vwcarbonfibre.asp)
Andy
PS. just be aware that the stuff I bought on the top of the list is polymeric vinyl, and therefore will shirnk slightly over time. This will keep it nice and tight as a covering, but don't forget to allow a few mm in the seams! If you buy cast vinyl, it is less likely to shrink, but is more expensive!
Don't bother with carbon vinyl krikey ,but proper laminate film 75microns and use that !.
You do FPV ,it must be good flyer,strong and stiff ,no looking good...LMO
Agree with Marcin. Better have a battered wing that flies great than a pretty brick that flies crap.
The clear "proper" lam is a lot better and stiffer than the vinyl.
EDIT: Small bits on carbon vinyl here and there can make it look great, but its not as good to use it as the main way of covering for stiffness.
That's a good point. I put my carbon down on top of proper laminating film. It adds a fair bit of weight, so for a functional machine that doesn't have to look pretty, you can save a bit of weight (which means longer flight times!)
It does look pretty though...
Quote from: Andy Sayle on July 02, 2013, 12:56:57 PM
It does look pretty though...
Cant argue with that, its looks awesome. ;D
What we need is a carbon effect laminating film!
I am just in the process of "restoring" my Zephyr Z2 and have laminated and carbon wrapped it.
I did the following:
1. Covered all the spar cut outs, leading edge and bottom centre section with weave tape.
2. Laminated the whole wing both sides.
3. Bought some 3D Carbon look, NO AIR BUBBLE, vinyl of eBay.
4. Cover each 1/4 of the wing seprately in carbon wrap, puling it tight and rubbing it on with a rag to ensure it is nice and wrinkle free.
It looks bloody awesome even if I do say so. It has not added that much in the way of weight to it and I am sure it is now hard as nails and ready for some abuse in the sky!!!
Will pop up some pics later.
Simon.
Quote from: krikey on July 02, 2013, 12:26:07 PM
I've received my Venturi FPV and very excited to get building. I have searched ebay for carbon fibre vinyl and theres plenty of it out there, question is what type should I get? Can anyone recommend a good supplier?
Try puffin models in Bristol... They do Carbon Fibre Oracover and go over the top of the 3mm Laminate. The later adds strength and rigidity to the wing and I think the added oracovering weight will be negligible really.
http://www.puffinmodels.com/category.php?dept=239
Just checked website and they don't have the carbon listed, just give them a ring, I am sure they'll get it in for you..
Should see my ZII, it's been beat to shit but still flies like a missile! ;)
Love it
Flyn, have you laminated yours or just covered in vinyl?
Mine is lam'd and vinyl'd. Just be aware that it puts more weight on the tail.
Can't wait to see a formation of Venturi's flying!
In the instuctions it mentions a CofG at "CENTRE OF GRAVITY 180-190mm BACK FROM THE NOSE POINT". as this is the FPV model, do I draw an imaginary line following the leading edge to where the point would be and measure 180mm back from there?
Or do I simply measure 180mm back from the blunt nose of the GoPro box?
Good question, and one that I never got to the bottom of! I measured from the tip of the leading edge (the bit that sticks out either side of the centre section.)
Quote from: Brucey on July 04, 2013, 06:07:04 PM
Good question, and one that I never got to the bottom of! I measured from the tip of the leading edge (the bit that sticks out either side of the centre section.)
Sounds like someone should mail flyingwings to clarify where to measure C.G. from with a diagram in the instrucations. C.G is quite important!
regards
Andy
180-190mm BACK FROM THE NOSE POINT
It's from the tip of the nose. If you've put a GoPro box in place already you will have to guess where the nose converges, eg. as you have already said you can draw an imaginary line.
The fpv version never had a pointy nose, the GoPro section is already cut out.
i have measured 190cm from the flat nose , and my cg is that far out ive had to add 400gms of weight :o , makes me think these are only designed for the gopro. as im not using a gopro on this one, its kind of annoying
maybe i should have ordered the gopro version with the gopro box, least i could have put my sandwiches in there :P
to add i have put everything as far forward as is possible
Rob from flyingwings.co.uk came back to me to confirm a few questions regarding the Venturi FPV.
Q1. What spray glue should I use?
A1. There is no need for spray glue when using laminate, if you do, then the
spray is a little thick, best use frame mount
Q2. How should I measure the CofG in the Venturi FPV?
A2. Measured from the blunt nose.
Hope this helps a few people.
So it's measured from the blunt bit where the GoPro sits? I'll have to measure mine and see where I'm at.
That's where I measured mine from, I will find out tomorrow how it flies.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, by a stroke of luck in cog is spot on with the lead ballast I've already got!
But I think my thrust angle is out. When I throttle back the nose drops. I think that means I need to angle the motor down a bit?
anyone have issues landing ? i mean i turn motor off prolly 200 meters out and glide it in and it still seriously fast, nearly taken my legs from under me a few times today lol
it flies amazing, glides for ages
mine is still tail heavy but flies like its nose heavy
Yeah mine glides for ages. You can't come in for a steep approach because it will be to fast!
Do you use a folding prop? I don't.
Still we would be complaining of it flew like a brick!
Just started glueing the wing together tonight and working out what my colour scheme is going to be.
Sweet, post some pics as you go!
no folding prop, just a 10x8, im thinking ablout airbrakes or a chute lol, ive never had a model that comes in so fast
Ok so first few pics:
(http://s2.postimg.org/r0uki6or9/7203fc05b73faa95697ef7ea7f08cb50.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/r0uki6or9/)
At the rear of the Venturi all the EP should line up flush.
(http://s11.postimg.org/mfu2946z3/4d61883e6a5a1cc1b5be4de5a60d5fb5.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/mfu2946z3/)
At the front, there is a "chin" which should sit below the wing with the upper shelf of the chin being inline with the bottom of the wing.
Question: There are two pieces of ply you get to mount underneath. One runs from front to back and one runs across the back and acts as a mount for the motor.
The longer piece, even when bent into shape with hot steam is long enough to tuck underneath the engine mount plyboard. Should I tuck it underneath (as shown in the instructions) or maybe I should apply the engine mount ply first and stick the skid board over the top so that there's no lip when coming into land?
Quote from: krikey on July 09, 2013, 11:16:04 PM
Question: There are two pieces of ply you get to mount underneath. One runs from front to back and one runs across the back and acts as a mount for the motor.
The longer piece, even when bent into shape with hot steam is long enough to tuck underneath the engine mount plyboard. Should I tuck it underneath (as shown in the instructions) or maybe I should apply the engine mount ply first and stick the skid board over the top so that there's no lip when coming into land?
i had the same thinking of you, so i put the motor ply on first
I used hot steam from the kettle on the underside to cause the thin ply skidboard to bend. It only takes around 30 seconds of manipulation over steam to bend it. If you apply steam to the underside the ply will bend upwards as one face expands whilst the other stays cooler. This makes the plyboard sheet easier to bend around the curved EPP "chin" mentioned earlier. I will glue the majority of the board down first, allow it to dry and then glue the curve in place afterwards.
(http://s17.postimg.org/6e9moufzv/b45fe0838fe46d69d2196212f4f9df4d.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6e9moufzv/)
A parachute coming out the back would be funny to see! I've gotten used to landing it now.
Looking good so far, yeah steaming the ply is the way to go.
Next question: The aluminium motor mount doesn't seem to come with any nuts/bolts. I'm assuming it should be bolted as there are already 2mm-3mm holes cut in the board.
What have fellow Venturi builders done here? Bolted/screwed/other?
There should have been some in with the control rods etc. however I found I had certain parts missing some sourced some nuts and bolts myself.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah I had nuts and bolts included for the mount
I'm making up a little box to sit inside the centre space to strengthen the sides and also to give me a few extra mm much needed height which allows me to stand the LiPos on their shortest edge to get a bit more space. I've added vents to the front and the back to help with airflow too.
Take a look at the picture below as to where I'm going to position the kit, can anyone see any issues? My main concern was the FrSky Rx being close to the ESC. The Rx is going to be buried in the wing at exactly the same point so it wont be visible but I dont want to start cutting until I'm sure.
The VTx is out on the wing.
The LiPos and ESC are in the space towards the front
The OSD/Autopilot will go (eventually) next to the ESC
the motor is uh... where the motor should be :)
The Rx will sit inside the wing on the edge of the box.
(http://s22.postimg.org/ggqkbljql/02911eed84f42ffbe3de1ab9e6f343dd.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ggqkbljql/)
Looks good. Can't you push the rx out on the opposite wing to the vtx? It will also help balance the wing left to right.
Here's a side on image of the box that Ive made up, showing the front of the box protruding into two slots I cut in the wings. This was based on ROVguys build to add some strength to the airfarme when its all glued in place. Its also higher than the wing by about 8mm so that I can place the LiPos in the box with a bit of breathing room.
(http://s18.postimg.org/cwlc6a9f9/3fb6b2dda1a76eaaaf77485612783aba.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/cwlc6a9f9/)
Some more shots showing the cable runs and the cutouts . I've lined the bottom of the VTx cutout with 2mm ply as the bottom sometimes gets a bit hot. I'm considering adding a small air inlet/exhaust for the VTx too rather than simply covering it up. I'd also like to be able to get the VTx out so I think a hatch is in order here.
(http://s11.postimg.org/evwc5vjnj/dfb84b4bc0d8c630d6de3aebc0c7bff6.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/evwc5vjnj/)
(http://s22.postimg.org/kfldurwi5/12bee30a3a37fa629e79ed079df62bad.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/kfldurwi5/)
Next instalment: After cutting the cable runs, I'ev started to lay out the cables and the antenna leads. Started adding velcro inside the box to attach things to. I also made up a V antenna mount that slots into the wing and will eventually be glued into place.
next up is to test all the equipment so soldering up the connectors between the motor and ESC and making sure everything works before I commit to Laminating it.
Should I laminate it and then affix the Elevons with tape?
(http://s15.postimg.org/u4haxo8wn/49bbbb40d858ca8211191cabf56f57fd.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/u4haxo8wn/)
(http://s15.postimg.org/gdhf979cn/e0f34b5a409475b394a45741c99bbde2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/gdhf979cn/)
(http://s9.postimg.org/424dzk9uj/c444e8a9134536679fcfc87faa833abe.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/424dzk9uj/)
Do the elevons after laminating and doing the colour tape/film.
Thanks ROV. Hoping to get the electrics done tonight so that I can laminate tomorrow in good light. As there is a hatch across much of the top, you cannot overlap the laminate across the middle other than directly in front of the motor. I'm just wondering if this is going to be an issue with rigidity.
Hence I put that bit of wood across the front mate. The one bit of advice I can give when laminating is take your time. When Simon did mine it took over 4 hours but it was a Stirling job and will probably save issues later.
I'm glad I followed your lead then and did the same thing :)
can you let me know what setup you are using at the moment in your venturi? I'm in process of ordering everything for build.
Thanks,
If laminating takes that long, it's a nice opportunity to put your GoPro on time lapse mode and capture the epicness of the build.
We didn't particularly rush it. I suppose it's down to how quick the lammy works and how well the iron heats up.
@joshua: I'm using the following:
2 x 2200mAh 3S LiPos
2 x Hitec HS-645 MG Servos
1 x D8RII-plus 2.4GhZ Receiver with telemetry
2 x 60cm 2.4gHz extensions for D8RII-plus
60A brushless ESC
E-Power BL2815 Brushless Outrunner Motor 1400KV
9x6 APC style prop
ImmersionRC 600mW Video Transmitter
Circularly polarised Skew Planar 5.8gHz Antenna
I'm undecided on Autopilot right now but may put the Storm OSD in there as its quite small. Ideally a Ruby or a RVOSD.
Hey Krikey, had the wing up again today for more testing and trimming. You REALLY have to get the COG right! I put the best part of a 100g of weight on the nose to get it flying sort of ok.
Right after an incident today, make triple sure the screws holding the motor to the motor mount are secure!!!! In fact I would definitely loctite them in place, I certainly will! Mine came out mid flight, which bit into the wing and I also ended up losing the prop adapter and prop as well. However, that being said, the motor dangling down and being forward made the wing fly sweet. So in going to remount it on the inside of the bracket ;-)
Laminating and taping is finished and the airframe is much much stiffer now. I noticed that it was harder to laminate the top surface which has more camber on it. The laminate I used was much more forgiving than I thought and I found that I was able to go back over it with my clothes iron and reseat any bits of laminate that had yet to tack. I also carried the laminate across the section in front of the motor on the top, and overlapped it slightly hence helping to strengthen this area somewhat, especially as I have cut out some of the foam to position the ESC and also run the power lines into the space.
If I build another wing however I may try the spray mount step before laminating to see if this makes a difference but the laminate has bonded quite well so far.
To tidy up some of the areas I used the weave packing tape which whilst not sticking well to EPP, sticks very well to laminate.
I laminated the Elevons and used the Zephyr II method of mounting them to the wing, using small bits of scotch invisible tape to start with then a strip of weavetape along the top surface. Then I folded back the elevon so that it was sitting on top of the wing and I then tapes the back of the elevon to the underside. This makes for a very strong hinge as mentioned before the weave tape adheres very well to the laminate.
I then taped the edges of the elevons so that they were nice and strong.
I've ordered some M3 locking nuts,bolts and washers as there were none in my VenturiFPV pack to secure the engine mount to the ply. In addition, I've ordered some M3 metal clevises as again there were two in the pack but Ideally I need four.
ROV, do you have a GoPro and a flight cam in the nose already? If not I would also account for this weight. I was on 190mm from the blunt nose before laminating and taping with 2 x 2200mAh 3S batteries hard up against the interior space.
Is your CofG still at 180-190?
My initial CoG was taken with everything fitted Krikey and my test flights were with everything fitted including flightcam and GoPro, hence the reason Ive had to repair the Go Pro so much ;) lol. Just make sure that the wing is slightly nose heavy and NOT tail heavy.
Quote from: krikey on July 14, 2013, 11:01:28 PM
ROV, do you have a GoPro and a flight cam in the nose already? If not I would also account for this weight. I was on 190mm from the blunt nose before laminating and taping with 2 x 2200mAh 3S batteries hard up against the interior space.
Is your CofG still at 180-190?
Sounds like the build is going well.
Have you re-checked the cog since laminating? It will add more weight to the tail than you think.
When I've added all the pushrods clevises etc then I'll rebalance but yes was aware that lamination would push weight to the tail.
I'm not carrying a separate flight camera so I may use that little compartment to carry some ballast.
Hey guys, I've just finished remounting my motor and fixed the new prop adapter onto the shaft. I decided to check my CoG, my god I must have been on something when I last checked it! It is way out!!! Even with motor brought forward and 2 strips of weight on the front! I put tape on the bottom and measured out a scale so I could get an accurate measurement. Its now 180-190mm, god only knows what it was with the motor at the back and minus the weight! No wonder I've been having major issues getting it to fly properly.
I've also noticed that the wing tips over to one side, the side with VTx so I also need to place weight to counterbalance that.
So krikey, when checking your COG, check, double check, triple check before putting the wing in the air... And loctite all nuts and bolts!
Hopefully now you've got it sorted it should fly like a dream!
Now all the clevises, motor mount etc is installed including gopro in the nose, I need 250g to get cofg at 190mm. which is an awful lot.
I am using 3s 2200s in the centre box but does this sound right?
Right, my setup is:- 2x 3300 mah lipos, 600mW VTX, Ardupilot 2.5 with GPS, 2.4 GHz FRSky FR8-SB. Flying camera and Go pro 2. Total weight 2.3Kg that's with 100g at least on the nose. And 20g on the opposite wing to VTX
I also had to add 200+gms to balance mine....it still needs more! :o
Can't remember how much lead mine needed. I've got 2x 3s 3300's and the go pro in its case.
AUW is 2.4 kg. Still glides well and launches easy.
Here's an update on my Vent, now using the GoPro case which is heavier and also a custom front cut from 3mm ply.
(http://s24.postimg.org/9dor77a5t/Photo_21_07_2013_17_45_13.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9dor77a5t/)
...and this is a shot prior to the black solar film and the flyingwings gopro box before I removed it.
(http://s10.postimg.org/qtops4o0l/Photo_20_07_2013_19_55_18.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qtops4o0l/)
Funny you should say that Krikey I was thinking of sticking my Go Pro in its housing. Im pretty sick and tired of having to repair the old one after it takes a nose dive into the ground. Had it flying today after a couple of test flights from Marklincs, its completely different to flying a plane, very responsive. Im gonna see if I can dial it down a bit more to make it a bit smoother. Unfortunately during my last flight something happened... I dont know what but the wing went into a spiral nose dive into the ground an I couldnt do anything to pull out of it. Hopefully, from initial inspection theres no major damage. The camera mount took most of the impact.
Ive also had an issue with the minimosd, in that I have display when no throttle, but apply a bit of throttle when flying and it disappears occasionally flickering on. Ive no idea what that may be?
i rejigged it as i had to add 250g to the nose, so i though that rather than carrying more weight that i need, why not put it to good use and the case is around 100g. My replacement 3mm plyboard nose is about the same weight as the gopro box supplied by flyingwings.
Ive still to add a flying camera but right now im around 120g off when i put the prop on the back.
Next step is the FPV camera and a decent way of securing the wing tips to the wings. ive tried velcro on the edges of the wing but they are very wobbly. How have you done yours ROV?
I just taped mine as suggested by the manual. They are nice and firm
For the winglets I used nylon nuts and bolts, with the nuts imbedded and glued into the wing.
As for the spiral dive, was it a stall? My wing spins on a stall. It's good to practise a stall when high up so you can see how our reacts.
That's the thing... I was at 50% throttle heading pretty much into the wind. My only thought is that I still need more weight at the front. The worrying thing was that as soon as it went into the spin I had no control. I was commencing a turn and then it just span! Fortunately the wing survived but it's had a fair few hard knocks now, I don't know if it can take much more!
Hmm, strange. It would be good to meet up again with both planes to compare notes and see why your having troubles.
The Vent is finished, balanced and looking good. The prop is balanced and the ESC has brake enabled. I've velcroed on the winglets using Velcro strapping. I'm pretty much on c/g of 190mm and AUW of 1.8kg which includes GoPro, flight cam 2x 2200 3s and 1x1000 3s.
Just need someone to come and help me fly it now.
How much deflection should I have on the elevons?
When trimming I've assumed that elevon neutral is horizontal when the vent is sitting flat on the table. is that right?
You don't need much movement at all. I would have dual rates setup just incase it's very twitchy.
As for the neutral point, I originally set mine up with the elevons in line with the top of the wing. But as soon as I launched it I realised it needed a few mm up from that.
It'd be happy to meet up, but the way work its going, it wouldn't be for a couple of weeks :(
Thank you to all of you who have helped with the build. I maidened the Vent on Sunday with CurryKitten who bravely offered to launch it. I have to say that it was a great experience, it flew well straight off the bat and once I'd gotten used to the twitchiness (even with dual rates and expo) it was a joy to fly. The flight(s) were made more interesting by an unexpected jetisson of the batteries when I did an inverted manoeuvre and the LiPos fell out causing the wing to sort of do an inverted steep glide into the ground. No damage done and LiPos found so we went again.
My door catch needs to be stronger :)
Heres the video:
http://youtu.be/2vrF014ZaRA (http://youtu.be/2vrF014ZaRA)
Nice one, glad it went well. Now you need to work on launching it yourself!
Yes, just looking into that now. following the Ritewing method of an overhead throw.
Yup, 90% throttle and a good chuck overhead. You got to fully commit to the throw!
How's your launching going?
I think you should buy another gopro housing and cut the mounting lugs of the bottom so you can make it more inline for better aerodynamics. I'm sure it will make a massive difference to how it flies with out the airbrake on the front!:))
I was impressed with how well it flew upside down with no batteries!
I haven't launched it myself yet but relied on CurryKitten to throw it for me and does it rather well I might add. Fiddling with RVOSD now and getting FBW (stablilisation) and RHL working.