Installed an EZ uhf sytem into my skywalker the other day and maidened it today however something very strange kept happening. It kept locking up for a second and then regaining control only to lose it again after another couple of seconds and this was only at about 100 meters!
The Problem is EXACTLY the same as this guys: http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?2871-Zephyr-maiden-today (http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?2871-Zephyr-maiden-today)!-EzUHF-issues-(video)
Has anyone has this happen to them? and how did you resolve it?
James
Hi mate, sorry to hear you're having problems - have you used the spectrum analyser? What's your noisefloor with your plane switched on?
What gear are you using with it?
How is you gear laid out in the plane?
Flyn i've literally just finished reading your thread on fpvlab about the Ezosd interfering and got me thinking. When i maidened the skywalker the other week with just servos, motor, esc, receiver everything worked fine but now ive added the FPV gear (EZ OSD, 600MW vTx and Camera) the issues have appeared!
The vTx is in right wing (5 inches from middle), The OSD gps is in the left wing (5 inches from middle), the Osd itself is under the wing in that little area above the fuselage with the current sensor under that in the fuselage. The receiver is on the tail boom about half way down being powered by a separate 5v bec connected to a 3s battery.
Looking at your post the fingers are being pointed at the EZ osd but in other posts they've found that it was a faulty EZ uhf tx.. :(
Looks like you've been doing some reading, good going, a lot of people don't.
If your UHF tx has the red bands around the top & bottom your tx is probably fine as the tx problem you're most likely reading about was remedied with that revision.
Sounds like your layout should be ok, pics would be good inc any of esc & osd & current sensor.
Way to tell if your ezosd is flooding your UHF band with noise is to use the spectrum analyser - btw you didn't awnser my 1st question about that.
You need to use it if not! ;)
You need to have the plane off & the analyser running, get a baseline reading then add a lipo to the osd current sensor (have the osd & current sensor disconnected from everything but each other) & move the current sensor near the ezuhf & see if it raises your noise floor.
Haha, i will do all of the above and will be back later!
Thanks the the help mate :)
Cool, post pics of your graphs too please bud.
Not problem, glad to help. ;)
Right firstly its the newer tx:
(http://s12.postimg.org/fon2qy5uh/IMG_1186.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fon2qy5uh/)
this is the setup:
(http://s17.postimg.org/p46fz0inf/IMG_1187.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/p46fz0inf/)
(http://s23.postimg.org/hqsir00lj/IMG_1189.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hqsir00lj/)
1) baseline - rx connected to computer only:
(http://s11.postimg.org/br23qj61b/IMG_1193.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/br23qj61b/)
2) servos and ubec powered up:
(http://s11.postimg.org/4hgj7trgv/IMG_1194.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4hgj7trgv/)
3) everything on including OSD, motor, esc, Vtx etc...
(http://s10.postimg.org/q45k7svmd/IMG_1195.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/q45k7svmd/)
Hang on, theyre the same graphs...
two seconds..
Lol, was just gonna say ;)
ok this one is with servos and ubec on:
(http://s24.postimg.org/i4nu31je9/IMG_1196.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/i4nu31je9/)
and this is with everything on:
(http://s15.postimg.org/mk46tn4if/IMG_1197.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/mk46tn4if/)
I think you might want to move your vtx to the wingtip bud, looks a bit close is it under 1ft from the VRX? This will cause issues.
Also would be good to check graph with motor running at flight speed as rx is damn close to that too.
Cool, do you have a graph with everything off - just with the rx on USB?
Just try with your the plug out of your vtx then plug it in to see if it's that adding the noise
The plane is a little noisy but not too bad. What's the hump at 459? That's the one you need to reduce.
Would be good to reduce the hump at 452-453 too.
the first graph is the baseline. nothing but rx connected to the computer via usb:
(http://s21.postimg.org/5916vxmbn/IMG_1193.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5916vxmbn/)
With Vtx on:
(http://s9.postimg.org/l28tfqfm3/IMG_1205.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/l28tfqfm3/)
Vtx power cable REMOVED:
(http://s22.postimg.org/bbthu9gzx/IMG_1206.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/bbthu9gzx/)
Hi bud, just a little confused....
your baseline shot shows more noise than the everything on shot?!?
As well your Vtx on & off graphs seem to be reversed - never seen a vtx lowering the noisefloor at about 12" from the rx
Can you double check fella ;)
haha, thats what i was thinking! two minutes... :laugh:
What firmware version are you running?
1) just rx and comp
(http://s2.postimg.org/7ga2qy7x1/IMG_1207.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7ga2qy7x1/)
2) servos and ubec
(http://s9.postimg.org/b4pklh3m3/IMG_1208.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/b4pklh3m3/)
3) everything including Vtx on
(http://s10.postimg.org/55iecvh1x/IMG_1209.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/55iecvh1x/)
4) same as '3' but without Vtx
(http://s23.postimg.org/o49ucfi13/IMG_1210.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/o49ucfi13/)
the 1.43 uk firmware
shit the bed dude thems aint good graphs! Under -80dbm you're not going to get too far especially on 100mw UK firmware. They have 1.45 out now with some good reports of being better than 1.43
The all powered noise floor on my EZUHF ZII is -103dbm
Have you tested it without the EZOSD current sensor?
so just test it as a bare rc plane? no FPV gear powered?
Yeah RX only powered, disconnect osd & current sensor from plane & leave all other fpv stuff off.
Plug in 3s lipo to current sensor & OSD & hold near RX & see.
This will tell you if the current sensor is faulty & kicking out uhf noise. Mine effected the RX from 3ft!!!
1) baseline with just rx servos and ubec on:
(http://s16.postimg.org/6owg44toh/IMG_1214.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6owg44toh/)
2) ez osd and CS 5 inches away from rx:
(http://s11.postimg.org/b6nzqlaof/IMG_1215.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/b6nzqlaof/)
hmmm, does look a bit fishy bud. Mine kicked out a wide band uhf noise of about 12-15dbm across entire spectrum.
That could be your problem.
I loaded the 433mhz firmware on mine too to test - did it across that as well.
http://i.imgur.com/xVyoSl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/xVyoSl.jpg)
LOL - think you just found a possible issue for your problems.
When configuring the rx what does the frequency band need to be on?
with uk firmware its set so doesnt matter
with 433 firmware it depends on where is cleanest on your graphs - so if you have noise at 432 & at 437 use 435mhz
433 is illegal here due to power output (500-600mw over uk 100mw) & freq but allows extreme hopping to jump through entire band to get best signal - btw they have released firmware 1.45 that is supposed to sort out range issues of 1.43
so after all the graphs do you know what i need to do? :laugh:
Quote from: Jameskibler on September 23, 2013, 01:08:30 AM
so after all the graphs do you know what i need to do? :laugh:
Yeah, keep testing with all your gear until you can see & understand what does what in relation to increasing & decreasing your noise floor.
Move your rx further reward, move your vtx out to near the wingtip.
Add ferrite filters to your servo cables to the rx at rx end, maybe add a lc filter (search forum for that one) to your vtx power for good measure.
Separate your power wires in the plane
Contact your retailer about your ezosd current sensor if found to be the only thing that bungs your noise up like that.
Tbh it's looking like it might.
You do however want to try to quieten your plane down a little, the ideal all powered on numbers should be between -85 to -105 (-105 is realistic best anything more is bonus)
Let us know how you get on ;)
right then :laugh:
I'll give all those things a go and see if i can get this thing going,
Thank you very much for the help Flyn. much appreciated!
James
No probs bud, happy to help.
Just be sure the osd current sensor is to blame before you contact your retailer.
UHF is a fussy thing. The quieter the plane is the further you can go with it.
Post back your results mate. ;)
1.43 has a known problem that is being fixed. causes lots more failsafes for some people. check fpvlab immersion forum. there is a new firmware 1.45 that is in beta at the minute that fixes those issues.
Ah right, maybe that could be it dogzilla, Do you mean v1.44 though? thats the one it comes up with on the immersion website
Mentioned the 1.45 firmware at least twice
Sorry Flyn ive just spotted that in your post, must have just missed it last night with being so tired!
Just switched the firmware to 1.45:
OLD 1.43 with everything on: http://postimg.org/image/55iecvh1x/ (http://postimg.org/image/55iecvh1x/)
NEW 1.45 with everything on:
(http://s12.postimg.org/78f331k4p/IMG_1221.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/78f331k4p/)
Oow that looks a bit better! Nice work!
If you can reduce the noise even further by doing the other stuff I mentioned you should be onto a winner!
Does your current sensor still raise the DBm by -10 or so?
After a quick test flight with the new firmware the glitches are still there and a mere 150m out..
So.. Vtx moved all the way to the wingtip. ez osd moved from under wing to the front of the nose on top of the batteries with the GPS on the outside of the canopy cover.
Results:
RX and computer only -
(http://s24.postimg.org/xhkwj4ntt/IMG_1224.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xhkwj4ntt/)
RX, servos and UBEC -
(http://s10.postimg.org/5nef7thp1/IMG_1225.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5nef7thp1/)
Everything on -
(http://s23.postimg.org/c634qfyfb/IMG_1226.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/c634qfyfb/)
Mate, that is a good result from your previous graphs!!
Still not great but a load better so nice job!
Look into maybe trying a different BEC as some can be really noisy, I changed one out on my ZII & it made a ton of interference so I've got to change it to somit else. Just would be good to eliminate that component.
Order some ferrite rings or some clip on ferrites to help cure some noise, they need to either have the cable wrapped round 5 times or need to be a tight clip onto the cable.
As your baseline is still quite high - I'm guessing you live near or in a big town or near a UHF HAM radio mast / operator / repeater station?
This could be masking some plane based noise.
Have you tested your baseline graph at your flying field?
Is there anywhere you can go that has less background UHF noise? My baseline here is about -110 / -115
Forgot to say that I've already added ferrite rings to the rx wires, UBEC wire, esc wire, VTX wire the lot.
The UBEC is actually a low RF noise one or rather it says it is!
Yeah im 8 minutes away from Consett co durham and theres a few tv/radio masts about 7-10km away, this is also where i fly from. I'll put it all in the car and do a baseline test from work tomorrow see what that comes out as
Quote from: Jameskibler on September 23, 2013, 11:25:14 PM
Forgot to say that I've already added ferrite rings to the rx wires, UBEC wire, esc wire, VTX wire the lot.
The UBEC is actually a low RF noise one or rather it says it is!
Yeah im 8 minutes away from Consett co durham and theres a few tv/radio masts about 7-10km away, this is also where i fly from. I'll put it all in the car and do a baseline test from work tomorrow see what that comes out as
Cool, we'll make you a UHF expert in no time! I'm sure the bec will be ok ;)
These masts depending on their usage will no doubt have massive outputs in relation to your kit, they could be making your noise issues worse & making it tough for your UHF gear to maintain a decent signal at range.
UHF I must is very good but it's not like 2.4 radio where you just plug it in & go, UHF is very sensitive to your gear & it's environmental noise levels, he quieter those are the further you can go.
Yeah im just getting my head around all of it at the minute!
Id been flying FPV on 2.4 for about a year now and been out 3.5km with the Spectrum gear :o and your antennas so i thought it would be as simple as replacing it with the ezUHF and increasing the range to 10km+!
oh how wrong i was! :laugh:
Yeah steep learning curve ain't it ;)
It's taken me an age to get mine sorted as had no one to really help me through it, worth it for a good system though, glad my skews are working well for you too!
Wow 3.5km on spektrum gear - I never got more than 900m with a DX8 & AR8000!!! Is yours US spec tx?
You'll get there mate, but be aware 10km will probably be the absolute limit of the uk spec 100mw 459mhz firmware tbh.
yeah that was me being blissfully unaware of what was about to happen, the AR6200 was on the tail so had perfect reception allowing me to go to 3.5km however as soon as i turned the connection was awful! had dropouts of maybe 20 seconds and then a couple of seconds to point towards home then lost connection again. somehow got it back in one piece :D I bought the DX6i from Sussexmodelcentre so im assuming is uk? :laugh:
Thing is though, most people say the most fun you can have is within a kilometre range anyway so im tempted just to sell it and stay on 2.4
Er yeah there's the good old Spektrum I know & no longer love lol ;)
Yes you normally pitch up near the interesting stuff so you can dick about more & fly lower.
I'd say keep at the uhf to give it a fair go as it's a lot better than 2.4 for signal penetration & will carry you much further than 2.4 too, just takes a little bit of work thats all.
Noisy environments dont help either 2.4 or 459 & you will notice large drops in range with both frequencies when flying near corresponding interference sources. (e.g uhf masts for 459 & towns etc with lots of 2.4 wifi for 2.4 rc)
If you're gonna sell the UHF to stick with 2.4 rc go FRSKY! I've seen 5km done on that stuff!
Quote from: Jameskibler on September 23, 2013, 11:45:47 PM
Id been flying FPV on 2.4 for about a year now and been out 3.5km with the Spectrum gear
Is that a round-trip or LOS?
3.5km LOS is very, very, very impressive for any 2.4ghz system let alone 100mW Spektrum :)
Quote from: DaveyLC on October 01, 2013, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Jameskibler on September 23, 2013, 11:45:47 PM
Id been flying FPV on 2.4 for about a year now and been out 3.5km with the Spectrum gear
Is that a round-trip or LOS?
3.5km LOS is very, very, very impressive for any 2.4ghz system let alone 100mW Spektrum :)
Impressive for an almost one-way trip lol ;)
UHF systems should be easy enough to install and run. The problem in my opinion is the EZUHF.
It's simply not as good as everyone seems to think. I know you can point to a hundred vids of people going long range with it, but when applied to the general FPV population you've got tons of people who are having failsafes within 2-3km. I know you can say it's external interference and therefore it's not the fault of the EZUHF but why is it other UHF systems aren't having the same problem?
My DragonLink V2 just went 10k on low power and I'm a few miles away from Crystal palace with megawatts of digital TV and other crap. EzUHF won't do half that, even on the older firmware on high power with identical plane setup.
I'm sure this will change now that Trappy has kicked up a massive fuss and Immersion are taking the problem seriously and bringing out new firmware but it's been lagging behind for the past 2 years.
It's a shame because in every other area EzUHF shines. Great hardware, numerous options, lovely software, firmware updates.... and now the new EzUHF will have 2W of power. Lets hope that solves their range problem.
Personally speaking despite my feelings for EzUHF I have faith it will get better, I will buy the 2W module based system because I'm a sucker for integration. And by then their firmware will have been sorted out, and worse case I can just abuse the airwaves and switch to win-mode(2w)
yeah davey, 3.5km LOS.
was just on a bixler 2 with the AR6200 and satellite mounted on the boom and tail!