Where 'K' in this stands for Krikey, you can see information about his 3D design and print of the frame in this topic http://www.fpvhub.com/multi-copter/14/my-new-mini-quad-250mm/17133/ (http://www.fpvhub.com/multi-copter/14/my-new-mini-quad-250mm/17133/) but rather jumble more stuff into his original, I'm going to use this topic to document my build of his frame.
So this is what krikey very generously gave me up at Mad Dogs 5.. which feels like a lifetime ago, but was only last week.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5527/11254118635_7d31408610_c.jpg)
The initial thought was to put the lipo on top of the bottom section and have the electronics sit on the little shelf above. But I found it was a bit tight for the 1600 2s lipos I was going to use.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7386/11151877236_362a66589d_c.jpg)
Of course, I could have sourced shorter fatter lipos, but instead I decided to use the underneath of the bottom plate. This means that the legs go on the top of the frame (whic isn't quite as designed) to give me a smooth section underneath for the lipo to hang down on.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2837/11254210063_6989e9e5b5_c.jpg)
Electronics wise, I really couldn't find much data on many small motors. In my mini H quad, I used the Turnigy 1811-2900's, which works fine, although a bit more poke would be good. So in lieu of finding a decent alternative, I got some Turnigy 1811-3800's, with the theory that the increased KV will get me a bit more oomph
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3804/11254222133_10810077ce_c.jpg)
These produce a tad more ampage that the 2900's, so have gone slightly bigger with the ESCs and have got plush 10A's (which are still tiny)
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2818/11254172414_121f6921a4_c.jpg)
...continued in next post, as I'm not sure what the limit on photos is
So with the ESCs, I wasn't sure what layout I wanted, so basically put them in a few places to decide what I wanted. My first thought was to put them all underneath the top section.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/11238474905_f08369ccc7_c.jpg)
It's a little bit of a squeeze, even after trimming wires, and I'm not particularly good at getting things neat, so then considered the ESCs on the arms.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7336/11238492774_9315d00ef9_c.jpg)
Which would be ok, aside from the fact that if you cut the wires down on the motors, they seem to reject solder sticking to them, so have eventually settled on a kind of half-in-half-out layout
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2843/11238498666_714efc7033_c.jpg)
Which should give me plenty of space to work with and keep things relatively neat. So to keep things low profile, I got some 15mm risers to go between the top and bottom - which I think makes it look pretty cool
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7355/11254159456_683d79e9e6_c.jpg)
So, other things needed were some small bits an pieces like m2 screws and wire, but a few larger things on order from HK international like a new VTX and a KK2.1 board to run it all. So a bit of soldering can be done now, but I'll need to wait for a few other bits to turn up before I can get it flyable.
Looking good CK.
One handy hint I found on FPVLab a while ago to do with motor wires is (bizarrely!) to first heat the wires with the soldering iron while you have them rested on top of an aspirin tablet. This dissolves the coating on the wires and leaves pure copper onto which you can then solder :)
Why don't you go for the nano wii board Wayne ?? Half the size of a kk board and saves a bit of weight
Looks awesome btw
I'm a bit lazy in that I tend to stick with what I know, and I don't know multiwii at all. I do really like the ease of messing around with the kk2, that built in LCD is a genius idea.
I don't want to be stuck in my ways, will schedule in some time next year to experiment with some different flight controllers.
Little bit more work tonight. First off with power distribution this time, I decided to use some PCB stripboard I had left around, and so cut a few small squares from this sheet -
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5489/11330749473_ef591588ba_c.jpg)
So I cut the ESC motors to the power distro and motors, and bulleted the motors and ESCs, then put them all together like so, creating my little solder pads in the centre.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7431/11330702654_1ab6cb944c_c.jpg)
Once the top and some props go on, it's starting to look the business
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5527/11330706224_64ed6520df_c.jpg)
What I do really like is how low a profile it has, from top to bottom, it's just 28mm right now :)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/11330607995_3cbde516dc_c.jpg)
What is even more interesting, is that chatting to krikey on Skype tonight, aside from a few more design changes he's made to the frame, his ESC layout is completely different, which is interesting in such a small frame that there is more than one way to do things !
I'm stuck now probably for a week. My UK channel order from HK only got dispatched today, and contains the KK2.1, VTX and some wire. Also waiting on some XT60's arriving from the UK
looking good ;)
Looks great CK. Looking forward to seeing these both flying. Here's mine to date but with a KK2 tray rather than the flat top.
(http://i.imgur.com/KgLRZ2yl.png)
A small update, but it's nearly done... frustratingly so. So the post came today, and in it was a package from HobbyKing containing a KK 2.1 board, a VTX, and various wires and bits and pieces.
So I finished the main power stuff by wiring in an XT60 connector for the lipo, power to the vtx, and power to the onboard voltage alrm on the kk2.1
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3825/11442438724_1cf8b828c7_c.jpg)
Plush ESCs default to lipo type batteries, so I changed these over to Ni-xx so i wouldn't suffer the low voltage cut-off
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7341/11442441894_94af7b05be_c.jpg)
...and then I got a bunch of magic blue smoke !
I'm not completely sure what the problem was, it appeared to come around the voltage connector on the kk2.1 board... it wasn't exactly well marked, but I'm pretty sure the polarity was right.
I checked everything over and reconnected, fully expecting to have blown the board, or an esc or something.... but everything then powered on absolutely fine and was working ok.
So the latest pic looks like -
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2854/11442488376_a146a1a890_c.jpg)
So my to-do list is -
- Make up USB cable for 808
- Make little holders for FrSky antennas
- Create a dampening mount for the camera
So hopefully I'll be able to test-fly it in the next few days.... although with the weather as it is now, this could be a very unexciting hover in my lounge.
neat,whats it weighin in so far without lipo?
Antenna look nice Wayne :-*
Sox mate, does look pretty good (The copter),
Ive started building my small T Copter after getting some inspiration from you and you small quad
Its a bit bigger using 8 inch props
I'll get some pics up today, I've called it the "Noseycopter"
Soz for hijacking
Quote from: bignose13 on December 19, 2013, 09:04:57 AM
Antenna look nice Wayne :-*
Sox mate, does look pretty good (The copter),
Ive started building my small T Copter after getting some inspiration from you and you small quad
Its a bit bigger using 8 inch props
I'll get some pics up today, I've called it the "Noseycopter"
Soz for hijacking
Hehe, no worries - been looking forward to seeing your small T-copter, I've noticed you've stopped trying to call it a mini, which is probably appropriate considering the power of those motors you've put on it :D
Very good Wayne and nice frame Neil. Top job. Long gone are the days of a hack saw, B n Q 10mm ally tubing and G10 fibre board / bit of plywood with these ere 3D printers :)
Will look out for the maiden fpv video.
Gav
Looks the business doesn't it Gav... of course, it's a little untested as to how well it will fly. But I don't think there's any more flex in the arms that the average DJI 450 arm, so I think it'll be good.
It was my wifes birthday today, so I didn't have time to solder up my 808 cable, but I did at least get the antennas from the rx and the piezo buzzer tidied away so I'll be able to LOS it and start some tuning (which I need to do anyway before I think about putting the goggles on)
Here's it's (semi) final look, next to my "made of old tricopter legs" mini-h... which looks embarrasingly awful in comparison :D
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3675/11472188386_f305bf0753_c.jpg)
Yay, finished the build... well kind of. What I mean is I've stuck everything on there, but of course it's not properly tried out as you've all seen the weather.
What I did tonight was make up my little 808 video/power cable and plumb that in.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3778/11485198383_5b3e7ab7c4_c.jpg)
As mentioned, I may need to add some dampening to that, but I'll come to that when I can actually get to fly it. Of course, I immediately wanted to try it out, but came up with an embarassingly long list of things I'd forgotten/ignored making me a prize idiot.
First it was all over the place and didn't seem to respond properly... why, because I'd forgotten that KK2's don't just fly X quads, and the default setting is a + config, o that wasn't great. Next a motor flew out of it's own mounting because I hadn't checked and threadlocked in the grub screws. Then I found it would take off but yaw wasn't responding. I'd managed to put the rear props on the wrong way, but had the motors running so they span up ok, but of course yaw didn't work !
Anyway, with all that corrected, I finally was able to do a little test hover. I'm in the small space in my man cave here so it was short... and quite tense, and I haven't done any setup on the kk2 board at all (this is all default) so much tuning to do, but already the frame looks good. Yay for 3d printing :D
K-Quad first little hover (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwGp8neb6wg#ws)
Quote from: Brod on December 19, 2013, 01:55:45 AM
neat,whats it weighin in so far without lipo?
c,mon get the scales out ;)
Quote from: Brod on December 22, 2013, 12:20:53 PM
Quote from: Brod on December 19, 2013, 01:55:45 AM
neat,whats it weighin in so far without lipo?
c,mon get the scales out ;)
Oh yeah, will try and weigh it today.
be interesting to know :)
my mini 260 size semi-homebrew comes in at 473g rtf with 1300 3s zippy
Just for you Brod, it's 380g with lipo (2s 1600) /camera ready to go, and 288g without the lipo
This is a touch heavier than my wooden mini h quad, which was 238g without a camera or lipo
very light curry :)
an 808 on its own is around 16g and a cable with USB will be a few more so it looks like the K-quad frame is heavier by around 30g.
Well the frame is probably not that far out. Although the USB cable is already on the h quad, don't forget that there are light different motors on the k and bigger ESCs
...and to finish off, here's this thread in video form, as well as some fpv maiden stuff.
The K-Quad build & maiden: A 3D printed mini FPV quad. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht-NJ29aBRE#ws)
With possibly the dampening results to follow.
Awesome, better get my arse in gear to do something similar with my Noseycopter, just told my daughter shes gotta film me this afternoon, shouldn have seen the face on her
Nice work! What props are you using? I just received some 5043 props today for my tricopter but they needed drilled out to fit the prop mounts, once that was done they didnt seem to produce much lift before one of the motors came out of its mount. I don't have an allen key small enough to tighten it so need to wait for the one I just ordered before I can try again. :(
That is nice work, the autolevel looks like its working great :)
Tops marks Neil and Wayne :)
Quote from: iwan_canobi on December 31, 2013, 04:16:54 PM
Nice work! What props are you using? I just received some 5043 props today for my tricopter but they needed drilled out to fit the prop mounts, once that was done they didnt seem to produce much lift before one of the motors came out of its mount. I don't have an allen key small enough to tighten it so need to wait for the one I just ordered before I can try again. :(
I'm using Gemfan 5030's which fit the prop adapter for the little 1811 motors. If you are using these, then you *must* threadlock in those grub screws. It's a 1.3mm allen key you'll be needing
i got a set of mini allen keys from machine mart, some are metric, some imperial, order code, 040215196, £4.79 inc vat. i have 1811s on my micro quad, they don't all have the same size grub screws!
Quote from: CurryKitten on December 31, 2013, 06:07:34 PM
I'm using Gemfan 5030's which fit the prop adapter for the little 1811 motors. If you are using these, then you *must* threadlock in those grub screws. It's a 1.3mm allen key you'll be needing
Ah, cheers, will have a look for them! I ordered a 0.9mm and a 1.3mm earlier today as I wasnt sure, hopefully see me right! Will need to get some threadlock as well then. Thanks for the tip! :)
looks mint Wayne... I've just sent Krikey a PM ordering one :)
Quote from: chrisbrit81 on January 03, 2014, 03:31:55 PM
looks mint Wayne... I've just sent Krikey a PM ordering one :)
Nice one, what stuff are you going to put on it ?
mobius as fpv cam
1704-1900kv motors
1000mah 3S
5" props
plush 10A or 12A escs
5.8 600mw irc vtx
:):):):):):):):)
I'd like to see the results with the mobius. Have you considered how to dampen the camera mount?
I use pound shop foam tape for everything i need to dampen. works bloody wonders, especially for flight controllers and cameras if you dont have a dirty/clean frame design.
Quote from: chrisbrit81 on January 03, 2014, 06:38:06 PM
mobius as fpv cam
1704-1900kv motors
1000mah 3S
5" props
plush 10A or 12A escs
5.8 600mw irc vtx
:):):):):):):):)
Cool Chris, look forward to seeing your build - I looked around for suitable motors to run 3s, but I couldn't really find any - so stuck with what I knew. Should be interesting on 3s :)
Quote from: chrisbrit81 on January 03, 2014, 06:38:06 PM
mobius as fpv cam
1704-1900kv motors
1000mah 3S
5" props
plush 10A or 12A escs
5.8 600mw irc vtx
:):):):):):):):)
How did it go?
Can you send me links to the ESC, and motors and props you used?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
well Chrisbrit81 had a change of plan and got the frame sent to me.cheers Chris ;) and Krikey
I intend building it up when the motors arrive,built my own design wooden ply one a week or 2 ago,which flies mint..but I always like to take 2 quads,incase of an early unrepairable crash at the field :o
i'll post some pics etc later of my stuff.
as it happens, I now have another one on the way :)
Those motors I looked at are no longer available ANYWHERE!!! so I'm going to have to think of something different.
Quote from: chrisbrit81 on January 17, 2014, 10:20:01 AM
as it happens, I now have another one on the way :)
Those motors I looked at are no longer available ANYWHERE!!! so I'm going to have to think of something different.
Doh, that's a shame - I was hoping we'd have a few more alternatives than the little 1811's. Your mission is to keep searching and fly with a completely different setup :)
I have just ordered my frame from Krikey, and was looking at running these on 3s......
any thoughts?
http://www.myrcmart.com/zmr-1804-2400kv-micro-outrunner-brushless-motor-clockwise-p-6281.html (http://www.myrcmart.com/zmr-1804-2400kv-micro-outrunner-brushless-motor-clockwise-p-6281.html)
They also sell a 10A esc pre-flashed with simonK......
That looks cracking. I was looking for possible 3S motors before I built mine, but I couldn't really find any that I thought were light weight enough. It does motor on 2s, but 3S might be crazy - but in a good way :)
I found one other potential alternative on Hobbyking since then as well http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29667__AX_1806N_2100kv_Brushless_Micro_Motor_19g_UK_Warehouse_.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29667__AX_1806N_2100kv_Brushless_Micro_Motor_19g_UK_Warehouse_.html) which are a touch heavier. In both cases, I could swap straight into my current config and see how mental it goes. But I've told myself I must get it flying super smooth first before I mess with the config.... and stop crashing into bushes and things
You know you want more power........ ;)
Do you think the mounting holes for the motor will line up with the holes on the arms? They are listed as 12.4mm apart.....
Just ordering the parts now.......
....and a mobius :-)
After being inspired by Zeeflyboys own mini Quad, he used adapters for his motor mounts. I'm wondering if that could be done on the K-Quad to allow for different sized motors.
Quote from: CurryKitten on January 23, 2014, 11:07:41 AM
That looks cracking. I was looking for possible 3S motors before I built mine, but I couldn't really find any that I thought were light weight enough. It does motor on 2s, but 3S might be crazy - but in a good way :)
I found one other potential alternative on Hobbyking since then as well http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29667__AX_1806N_2100kv_Brushless_Micro_Motor_19g_UK_Warehouse_.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29667__AX_1806N_2100kv_Brushless_Micro_Motor_19g_UK_Warehouse_.html) which are a touch heavier. In both cases, I could swap straight into my current config and see how mental it goes. But I've told myself I must get it flying super smooth first before I mess with the config.... and stop crashing into bushes and things
I've got some of these motors,plenty of power but massively out of balance,the bells seem uneven as they turn.they are more like 24grams not the 19g stated.
the Multistars are much smoother but not quite as much power with same setup.
Thanks for that Brod - I was just about to pull the trigger on those!!!!
Do the multistars have enough power on 3s though? - doesn't need to be ballistic...
Cheers Brod - useful to know. I got the link from them from someone who had built a mini on the Facebook page. Who's going to try some of those other ones then :)
yes multistars run nice on 3S,not ballistic.
idea behind these little guys is to build em light,aim for around the 400-450 gram rtf mark and the Multistars will be fine.
also pick a high C 1300 mah 3 cell lipo,the C rating will make a difference on such a small quad,i noticed a big differance in overall power using theHK nanos compared to the Zippy compacts even though the compacts were about 30g lighter.
using 2 blade props is more 'agile' in flight,faster than the 3 blades but the 3 blades seem more stable and easier to fly,maintaining a hover without constant throttle input like the 2 blade props.3 bladers also seem easier to balance too giving a smoother video.But I prefer 2 blades :)
I'd be interested to know how you balance 3 bladed props as these are easier to get hold of than the 5x3 gemfans.
with great patience krikey ;D keep adding and taking off tiny pieces of tape until happy,then turn props round on balancer,and keep checking.i've made my own balancer from an old rcboat prop balancer,the ones you buy are usually crap with hubs out of balance to begin with,useless...
they arnt far out of balance to begin with though.
they not gunna stay in balnce for long though as the slightest scuff or chip in a crash knocks em out.
I've got a big pile of the 3 blades, I just can't get 'em to work for me at all. It was wobble city before I went to 2 blades
that could be cause you running a higher KV motor on 2S,a lower kv motor like the Multistars on 3S will have more torque enabling the 3 bladers,which are heavier and use more amps,to run at better speed which the gyros on the KK will be able to respond quicker..so less wobble...
must be noted here also,i'm not using a Krikey frame but one of my own design wood ones.but its similar size and weight..
Quote from: Brod on January 23, 2014, 01:50:40 PM
that could be cause you running a higher KV motor on 2S,a lower kv motor like the Multistars on 3S will have more torque enabling the 3 bladers,which are heavier and use more amps,to run at better speed which the gyros on the KK will be able to respond quicker..so less wobble...
must be noted here also,i'm not using a Krikey frame but one of my own design wood ones.but its similar size and weight..
Yes, no worries, I was just talking generally about the 3-bladers. I hadn't even tried them on my mini H or the K-quad, I started using them on my old Turnigy frame which was very light - so perhaps what you said is relevant. I could never get them balanced properly though anyway, like you said the hubs are always way out to start with
Right, everything ordered and on the way.....
Will update once everything arrives......
looks fun quad :) , what's the biggest battery people are using on these?
On 2s, krikey and myself are using 1600mah lipos to get around 6 minutes of flight. These were chosen very scientifically based on the fact that I had some laying around and that's what I wanted to use.
In a previous mini quad I was using 850-900 mah to keep weight down, but then only got around 4 minutes.
Hey Guys,
First post,came over here because of this great little frame,bought one from another forum.
With the 1600 mah battery recommended iam getting it to hover at 60% throttle.
Frame weight including battery 390g.
Now whats interesting is with a zippy compact 2200 mah 2s she is hovering at 55% throttle and the zippy
is heavier than the Turnigy 1600,i guess its to do with the c rating?
Im using 5x3 HQ props,im pretty sure they have slight less thrust than the gemfans.
Great frame though loving it,will add the mobius soon then fpv gear later.
That's an interesting stat Paul, which 1600 and 2200 are you using. I get a 50% hover on the 1600 (although my KK stick scaling on throttle is set to 100% (it's 90% by default).. and that is with the Gemfans.
Be interested to know what sort of flight times you get on the 2200 - especially as it seems to find it easier to lift
Quote from: CurryKitten on January 25, 2014, 06:14:46 PM
That's an interesting stat Paul, which 1600 and 2200 are you using. I get a 50% hover on the 1600 (although my KK stick scaling on throttle is set to 100% (it's 90% by default).. and that is with the Gemfans.
Be interested to know what sort of flight times you get on the 2200 - especially as it seems to find it easier to lift
The batteries:
1600 mah 80g : (Same as your i think)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=37362 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=37362)
2200 mah 113g :
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=31977 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=31977)
THe only difference beside the weight is the constant discharge rating 20c and 25c
I have the stick scaling at 100%.
I would have thought the 1600 mah would be easier to lift due to weight,but it doesnt seem to be.
waiting on some good weather to take her for a spin over the park.
Very slightly different, I'm using this one http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=34245 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=34245) which doesn't fit between the legs - which is why my frame is upside down :)
But the specs look the same, I wonder why yours is lagging so much. Looking forward to see how you do on the 2200, please update the thread once you get a decent day to fly. As the size of it is very similar to the 1600 I use now (albeit a bit heavier)
cheers for the suggestions guys on battery size, will get some on order and see which ones work best :)
Hey Bowerz,
Yep, that was my NetFPV project. There's a thread about it here somewhere, but I'm sat in the car at the mo and can't find it. We still aim to fly something over the net just for fun, but me and Atarix - my remote end of things have both been busy with other bits.
Meet up for a fly would be cool, I'm just down the road in Whiteley :)
A gaggle of K-Quads. Now wouldn't that be cool. Get some footage if you can.
Looks good, add on your VTx and camera and you're good to go.
I have mine built now . . . KK2.1 FC, Turnigy 1811 3800kv Motors, Turnigy Plush 10A ESC, GemFan 5030 Props with 2S 1300 & 1600 Lipo's . . . can anybody share their KK (2.1) setup as a starting point for me ?
Sure, although I'm running the Steveis FW which will make the PI values look a bit weird. What are you running on your KK2.1 ?
Just updating to Steveis v1.11S2 (or should I be using v1.12S1 - Beginner ?)
I believe the idea of 1.11S2 is to allow it to handle acro stuff nicely. The beginner is there to try and act a lot like the 1.6fw on the original kk2.0 board. So if you want to fly using self-level that might be better.
What I have right now are -
mpu6050 settings
gyro: 2000
acc: 4
filter: 256
Setting the gyro at 2000 means the PI's are 4 times the normal values, so I have
roll 180/300/100/80
pitch 220/400/120/80
yaw 260/80/200/40
It's certainly not done yet. I was working mainly on trying to get the roll right, so the pitch gains are still too high. I can get smooth flight if I go slow, but tend to get some oscillations at higher speed.
My last test flight looked like this, I just need more time to keep tuning/messing until I'm happy -
K tuning session, with lipo beeps making me want to kill myself (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBWqyTz78sQ#ws)
I believe the voltage sensor in my 2.1 is off as well, so was getting a load of beeps.
Thanks . . . loaded v1.12S1 ("beginner") and then set my PI's to a quarter of the values you provided . . . hovered (inside) in self level mode at medium rates on my Taranis (I have theses setup at 100%, 50%, 40% for "High", "Medium", "Low").
Briefly tried ACRO, but I think that is a little bit above my skill level at the moment.
Still feels a little bit twitchy, but need to fly it outside with a bit more space . . .
. . . so, off to PID tuning school for me
You need to do you PI tuning in manual mode - just hovering until you are happy that it's staying steady. Only move onto tuning auto-level once you've done this.
I do generally find auto-level is a bit twitchier in these little quads, but the kk2.1 seemed not too bad at all.
This is all a lot easier once you are outside - even these little quads inside a house feel like an instant death machine ready to destroy your walls and things.
After struggling with this issue for a while [i.e. P, I and what good looks like], this video on YouTube suddenly made it all clear to me . . .
http://youtu.be/YNzqTGEl2xQ (http://youtu.be/YNzqTGEl2xQ)
. . . and the principle of addressing one axis at a time and first getting P for that axis optimised before moving on to get the best setting for I makes perfect sense.
I think I will "string" my K-Quad up on a static rig to tune it one axis at a time using some of the information gathered together here http://www.rcproreviews.com/kk2-0-flight-controller-setup-and-settings/ (http://www.rcproreviews.com/kk2-0-flight-controller-setup-and-settings/).
There is also a very simple explanation of Self Levelling settings by RCmanchild here http://youtu.be/f0Bh3fMGHbM (http://youtu.be/f0Bh3fMGHbM).
CurryKitten, are you running stock firmware on your Turnigy Plush ESCs? . . . or have you re-flashed with BLheli firmware ? . . . flashing with different firmware should make the quad more responsive and allow higher gains without introducing oscillations (but you will have to re-tune the KK , of course).
I'm running the stock firmware, I looked at the BLheli update, but the updating procedure looks like such an effort that I never got any further than this. I know it will fly smoothly on plushes, I've got my other mini H quad going smoothly, and had a previous iteration of the HK glass fibre mini frame running smoothly.
That said, if I notice some Simon K flashed 8-10a ESCs, I might well give them a try
The Blheli update process looks complicated at first glance, but it is actually really simple and takes only 3-4 seconds per ESC. It is just as straight forward as flashing a KK2 with updated firmware . . . all the work is done automatically in the BLheliSetup software (the equivalent of the KKmulticopter Flash Tool).
The trick is connecting to the ESC (without having to solder to the tiny pads) . . . I 3D Printed a jig/clip into which I inserted 4 spring loaded test pins (easy if you have the pins and once you have designed the jig) that sets them at exactly the right position/angle to hit the four pads (spaced at 1mm) on the ESC . . . then it is simply a matter of holding the spring loaded clip (connected to one of these $10 USB programmers http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=25433 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=25433) with three wires) against the pads on the ESC and clicking two buttons on the BLheliSetup software running on your PC.
If you zoom into the picture below you will see the test pins protruding from the bottom of the clip. You then just connect the "black", "red" & "white" wires to the other end of the appropriate pins (there are pictures of all the BLheli compatible ESC's showing the connection points coloured "black", "red" & "white" in their documentation https://github.com/bitdump/BLHeli/blob/master/SiLabs/BLHeli%20supported%20SiLabs%20ESCs.pdf (https://github.com/bitdump/BLHeli/blob/master/SiLabs/BLHeli%20supported%20SiLabs%20ESCs.pdf)). The wires have female servo connector pins crimped to them and some heat shrink to cover them at one end (the other end is connected to the cable that comes with the Hobbyking Toolstick using a normal servo connector). Over 90% of the SILABS ESC's use this "four pads in row spaced at 1mm" style of connection, so this is good for pretty much all BLheli ESC flashing.
All the advice I read says that running BLheli (on SILABS ESC's like the Plush Series) or SimonK (on ATMEL ESC's) absolutely transforms a multi-copter.
Oooh, interesting. Yep - all the guides I'd seen involved soldering to tiny pads. Obviously the non-soldering solution is a lot more desirable. Hmmm, I saw you could use the arduino for flashing as well, I wonder if I could build something for my leonardo that would do this. Not heard of spring-loaded test pins before. I take it the idea is that you can push them down onto the pins on the esc and they stay there, and there's less risk of them slipping or whatever ?
Yes, an Arduino will work as the "programmer" too and is driven directly from the same BLheliSetup software (it downloads and runs a programme on the Arduino automatically . . . without destroying the Arduino Bootloader, so you can simply revert to your previous Arduino programme when finished . . . you can actually use the KK2 for this).
On the Arduino you use three of the pins on the [six pin] ISP Header. Have a look at this video on YouTube to see the process
http://youtu.be/P2agnNY5D-8 (http://youtu.be/P2agnNY5D-8).
You just connect the "black", "red" & "white" to three header pins on your Arduino once it is running the BLheli Programme and then click on the two buttons ("connect" and "flash") on the BLheliSetup Programme running on your PC (whilst holding the spring loaded clip in place against your ESC pins for a few seconds).
Here is an example of "Stock" Turnigy Plush ESC's vs "BLheli" flashed ones . . .
http://youtu.be/s7QtKuwRD0g (http://youtu.be/s7QtKuwRD0g)
. . . this appears pretty extreme, as it looks like the MultiWii has default settings and hasn't been tuned, but it does illustrate the difference.
So, in the hunt for tuning perfection, flash BLheli (or SimonK) and keep on improving.
The latest version of BLheli (v11.2) can be obtained here http://www.helifreak.com/blog.php?b=2001 (http://www.helifreak.com/blog.php?b=2001). This provides a link to a page where you can download "BLheli-Setup11200.7z" (a highly compressed Zip file type) which can be expanded and unzipped using 7-Zip (http://www.7-zip.org (http://www.7-zip.org)) . . . and lots of other links to forums and materials related to BLheli.
The download contains everything needed to flash BLheli to SIL ESC's, including documentation on how to connect to each of the supported ESC's, manuals for programming the ESC from your TX once it has been flashed, all of the "hex" files for the different ESC's and code for various Arduino types (to act as a programmer, if you don't have a ToolStick).
If using the Hobbyking Toolstick (linked to in my earlier post), it is simply a matter of connecting the Toolstick to the relevant pads on the ESC, plugging the Toolstick into your windows PC (no driver required), navigating to the "BLheli-Setup11200" directory and executing "BLheliSetup.exe" and then powering up the ESC (this can either be from a normal LiPo or more safely a 9v PP3 standard battery),
For clarity, the sequence for connecting your ESC for flashing is;
- First connect the ESC to the Toolstick;
- Then connect the Toolstick to a free USB port on your PC;
- Launch BLHeli Setup;
- And lastly connect a battery to the ESC.
Click on the "connect" button and the "flash" button should become active once the connection is established . . . then click on the "flash" button and select your ESC model (remember to always choose type "multi" when flashing your ESC for use in a multi copter) and your ESC will be flashed with BLheli firmware in only a few seconds. If you get an error when connecting, it will be because you have got your connections the wrong way round, or you have shorted out the pads on the ESC, or you are not "cleanly" connected to the pads . . . don't worry just check the connections and try again, you will quickly develop the knack.
Once flashed with BLheli firmware, you will also be able configure various parameters for your ESC . . . remembering that all ESC's on your multi copter must be programmed identically . . . Most likely you will want to leave all of the defaults (that were set when the firmware was flashed) alone, except for throttle MIN and MAX that you should set appropriately for your TX/RX.
BLHeli-Setup carries all original Firmware files for any supported BESC on board (since rev 2.4), so no other downloads are needed to easily "switch" between different firmware revisions.
Different types of Interfaces for flashing/programming BLHeli are supported by BLHeli-Setup.
1. All Silabs Toolstick based solutions:
- modified Silabs ToolstickBA (Base Adapter)
- Silabs ToolstickBA + ToolstickDA (Debug Adapter)
- USB Debug Adapter for C8051Fxxx MCUs
- HAWK STICK (Silabs USB Debug Adapter clone)
- Oversky "Flash stick tool" available at several shops. (Silabs USB Debug Adapter clone)
2. Toolstick substitute solutions with code for AVR ATMega/Arduino Boards:
A Plain ATMega8 chip (8 Mhz internal clock) with RS232 connection (USB/Serial converter). No additional components needed, cheap, straightforward. If a bootloader is present on the Arduino, BLHeli-Setup can flash a new firmware over USB without the use of the ISP Interface.
Several Arduino Boards (e.g. Arduino Uno) are supported with
- ATMega 168/328P 16Mhz or 8Mhz
- TMega 1280/2560 16Mhz
Extremely easy to flash and handle with BLHeli-Setup. Flashing will be done with the help of Avrdude. The Arduino Bootloader will stay fully intact!
More information on which pins to use to connect an Arduino to the target ESC are provided within the download.
One thing did trip me up . . . I just couldn't get the throttle range working properly, which left me with motors that wouldn't spin at all . . . the answer was simple once I figured it out.
Using BLheli-setup;
- switch off "Programming by TX;"
- manually set "PPM Min Throttle" (e.g. 1.100ms) and "PPM Max Throttle" (e.q. 1.900ms);
- make sure you don't set "PPM Min Throttle" below that of your TX/Flight Controller output !
The first and last of these are really important, for a while I thought I may have damaged my speed controller, as I was constantly experiencing random throttle ranges (because they were being 'randomly' set by throttle input at each power on) and frequently static motors (because the "Min" was set below that which the TX/Flight Controller were putting out).
Apparently, there is a quite sophisticated method of setting the Governor Target Speed for helicopters at each power on . . . with "Programming by TX" set, this routine was effectively setting Throttle Range (Min/Max) based on TX Throttle inputs at each power on.
When it is set correctly (as above) you should hear three tones "da da da" followed by a gap then a "low" tone and finally a gap and a "high" tone at startup . . .
Thank you Neil
She arrived this morning and been approved by Sindy the pup, nicely packaged and well presented
thanks again just the china train to wait for now :D
(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w385/dizzyfpvgirl/TheKquadasarrivedandapprovedbySindy_zps38c6725d.jpg) (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/dizzyfpvgirl/media/TheKquadasarrivedandapprovedbySindy_zps38c6725d.jpg.html)
dizzy :D
Glad it arrived safely Diz. Looking forward to seeing it flying and any feedback is welcome :)
Anyone got a link to these multistar motirs please?
Does the Turnigy 1811 3800kv fit right on the frame.
Fancy this as an fpv quad
Thanks
Quote from: Sommie1974 on April 22, 2014, 10:35:38 AM
Anyone got a link to these multistar motirs please?
Does the Turnigy 1811 3800kv fit right on the frame.
Fancy this as an fpv quad
Thanks
The 1811s can fit directly to the frame, but after some issues with the motors, I'm not sure I can recommend them. When they work perfectly they are great, but mine have seemed to degrade quickly. I've got the RCX motors, but yet to try them.
Thanks curry. You got a link to the motors? They fit straight on? Do you use the turnigy esc's 10amp?
Thanks mate
We're trying these
http://www.myrcmart.com/rcx-1804-2400kv-micro-outrunner-brushless-motor-clockwise-p-6281.html (http://www.myrcmart.com/rcx-1804-2400kv-micro-outrunner-brushless-motor-clockwise-p-6281.html)
Part of the reason I haven't tried yet is that they don't fit on, so you need an adapter of some sort or possibly krikeys v2 legs. I'm using the Turnigy 10a ESCs yes.
Sort of in limbo at the moment, I should get some more bits from Neil on Saturday so can eventually try it all out
So that link you sent the motors don't fit?
I have used the turnigy motors you mentioned in the past and didn't like them. That's why I was asking.
Wonder wot other motors people have had success with.
Thanks
That's correct, they don't fit the original arms. Dizzy has constructed nice mounts for hers, and krikey has duplicated this idea, but also has a new arm idea which looks like it might fit a lot of different motors.
Check ut krikeys thread in the manufacturers section to get an idea of what other motors people have tried and what fits/doesn't
Cheers curry I will do
Just to let you know becouse i didn't Banggood are selling the little motors i have used :D
both left and right rotation too :D
http://www.banggood.com/-X-Power-1804-2400KV-Micro-Integration-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-p-923424.html (http://www.banggood.com/-X-Power-1804-2400KV-Micro-Integration-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-p-923424.html)
free postage :D
dizzy :)
http://www.banggood.com/-X-Power-1804-2400KV-Micro-Integration-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-p-923424.html (http://www.banggood.com/-X-Power-1804-2400KV-Micro-Integration-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-p-923424.html)
dizzy :+ see why now ;)
Any idea what they are aitch, the rule of thumb is fairly light-weight, and pretty high kv. In the 2000+kv for a 3s and 3000+ kv on 2s. Looks like a sort of triangular mounting hole pattern there ? The K arms have holes in a cross pattern, but it looks like you could pull the mount off and drill another hole or 2 if needed.