FPV HUB

Planes => Gliders and Scale Planes => Topic started by: lrosm on February 10, 2014, 03:02:30 PM

Title: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 10, 2014, 03:02:30 PM
Hi there,

i brought a Bixler2 in July of last year & from July to Oct I was flying it using the stock motor & a 2200 3C & 1300 3C battery with no issues at all.

i had to lay the plane up for four months as I was working away.  On returning, i have seen a total loss of performance on the plane.  at first i thought it was just the trim as I put some FPV gear on it (just a fatshark Tx & camera / Suppo OSD) & had trouble flying.  I thought it was trim.

I am now not convinced.  I have tried both batteries & I just am getting no "ummph" at all.  Even at take off, it used to strain to fly when I held the plane up at full power, now I feel no real pull & when throwing it, i am lucky if I can get it into the air before it stalls.  it is like the motor is at half power!

now saying that, I do have a new transmitter a DX6i....now could it be that my throttle, on the tx even at full power, is actually not putting out full power on my motor?  could it be a config issue.

i just cannot see how two batteries & or my motor can lose so much power?  help!!  my poor bixler is feeling very beat up with the amount of nose dives & wing tip stalls these past two days!!

cheers,

lrosm
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: iPeel on February 10, 2014, 03:04:06 PM
Have you got the prop on the right way round? The numbers should point forwards.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: CurryKitten on February 10, 2014, 03:19:46 PM
The stock Bixler 2 motor is very hit or miss.. mostly miss it seems.  My one is going fine, but FlyBoySee's wasn't working out of the box, and there's hilarious video of Keukpa attempting to launch his full whack and it nosing into the ground repeatedly.  So it might have gone kaput.

Alternatives are as iPeel said: Prop round the wrong way.  Or as I had the other week flying my Falcon and finding it had now Oomph, if you've got any space around the shaft and the prop - i.e you are missing the ring that would fit in there, that causes a real loss of performance
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: wgt40w on February 10, 2014, 03:28:44 PM
" new transmitter "

I wonder if you need to recalibrate the esc to the transmitter ???
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 10, 2014, 03:30:10 PM
hi ipeel,  unless my son played around with the prop it should be the right way round! just checked for numbers & could not see any? it is the stock bixler prop.

i do have a spare motor so could try mounting that i guess.  its just all very strange but i guess that is FPV flying all round!!
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 10, 2014, 03:31:27 PM
hi there,

my esc again is stock from HK.  it is a new TX.  so how would I do that?
i have to admit i was thinking something along these lines that my "full up" on my tx throttle wasn't actually giving me full motor power.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: Loopdreams on February 10, 2014, 03:35:43 PM
This is pretty much the same for most ESCs.

TAKE THE PROP OFF.

Power the plane on with the throttle at full, hear a beep or a couple of beeps and then lower the throttle to minimum, hear another beeps or two.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: Coyote on February 10, 2014, 03:41:47 PM
Does sound like an ESC calibration is in order.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 10, 2014, 03:43:36 PM
hi there

ok did that, i had the power on full, then connected the batt.
the motor did NOT spin at all.

i then lowered the power to minimum.  it beeped.  then on raising the power, the motor spun.
so i guess that is my ESC calibrated. now it is testing it!
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 10, 2014, 03:44:04 PM
oh and i found the numbers!
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 10, 2014, 03:47:00 PM
i guess the proof will be in the pudding!
i will take her back up again later & see how she goes with this calibration!!
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: CurryKitten on February 10, 2014, 04:22:17 PM
Oops, missed the bit about the new tx. Sounds like you got it calibrated ok. You'll probably be able to tell if its made a diff just by holding the plane as if you were about to throw it and throttling up. See if it "pulls"
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 10, 2014, 05:19:22 PM
hi all

cheers for the swift replies once again!!  it really is a learning curve!!!

cheers
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 11, 2014, 11:50:04 AM
hi all,

just had the plane up for a test.....no joy!  i am completely stumped.  on take off, there seemed to be some "pull" to leave my hand (maybe wishful thinking) but even at full power it was grass cutting then if i was lucky to keep level i could slowly very slowly gain a bit of height.

i have a new motor that i will fit & try again.

i am Still wondering if i did my ESC programming correctly! 

i will try that again too!

cheers.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: chris-s on February 11, 2014, 12:19:39 PM
Did you check the prop?

I've done this enough to know what way to put the props on, but absent mindedly I still did it wrong a few weeks back and  it took me a week to realise what I'd done.

Chris

Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: Coyote on February 11, 2014, 12:57:36 PM
Could it be your lipos are damaged and dropping their volts under throttle being applied ?
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: FPVSteve on February 11, 2014, 01:20:00 PM
^ this .... stick a voltage monitor on the balance port and watch what happens when you increase throttle (with a prop on for loading).
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 11, 2014, 02:48:01 PM
i have put one on my two batteries

1800 3S

No 1 4.19
no 2 4.22
no 3 4.16

all 12.5v

2200 3S

No 1 3.96
No 2 4.00
No 3 3.96

all 11. 9v
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 11, 2014, 02:48:43 PM
NB

sorry this was the load of my batts unconnected.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 11, 2014, 02:51:54 PM
on my 1800 3S on full load my voltage drops to 11.6

off load 11.9
on full load 11.6
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 11, 2014, 02:54:14 PM
my 2200

offload 12.4
onload 12.1

so all looks good there.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 11, 2014, 03:00:20 PM
just double checked my prop is on with the numbers facing fwd towards the cockpit.
i am going nip out & have one more go now!
standby!
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: chris-s on February 11, 2014, 03:23:00 PM
Quote from: lrosm on February 11, 2014, 03:00:20 PM
just double checked my prop is on with the numbers facing fwd towards the cockpit.
i am going nip out & have one more go now!
standby!

OK, well thats right then. Check the hub aint cracked, thats what prompted me to replace mine, it was fine one week then the next week it "wasn't right", turned out the hub had cracked, it flew but badly, then of course in haste I put on a new prop, the wrong way, and it wasn't much better - duh!

Chris
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: FPVSteve on February 11, 2014, 04:09:22 PM
Potentially failing ESC or bad solder joint which can't handle the current draw.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: Loopdreams on February 11, 2014, 04:13:31 PM
Reckon it's still not calibrated properly.  If something was ok until you changed something then it's likely to be related to the thing you changed.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 12, 2014, 01:02:56 PM
well that didn't go well!
still no real power & unfortunately hit a gust of wind just as I took off, flip it backwards & nose down.  shattered the plane nose completely.  already had one rebuild but shattered at these weak points again.  not sure if i can rebuild this time.

on HK now for a bixler2 shell & think i will rebuild!

cheers for all you input everyone.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: Coyote on February 12, 2014, 04:03:27 PM
Fit one of these:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29440__NTM_Prop_Drive_28_36_2200KV_696W_UK_Warehouse_.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29440__NTM_Prop_Drive_28_36_2200KV_696W_UK_Warehouse_.html)

Then don't worry about power :) If it needs an ESC put a Turnigy Plush 30 amp in or a Plush 40 if you want to go 4s with ridiculous amounts of grunt :)

Job done :)
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 12, 2014, 10:33:22 PM
hi coyote,

that is exactly the motor I already have!  i was planning on upgrading the orig bixler.  so will put this motor on the new one.   i have the 30amp ESC too!  this motor will push my bixler nice & high for my FPV!

cheers.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: gtv on February 13, 2014, 07:11:44 PM
Quote from: Coyote on February 12, 2014, 04:03:27 PM
Fit one of these:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29440__NTM_Prop_Drive_28_36_2200KV_696W_UK_Warehouse_.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29440__NTM_Prop_Drive_28_36_2200KV_696W_UK_Warehouse_.html)

Then don't worry about power :) If it needs an ESC put a Turnigy Plush 30 amp in or a Plush 40 if you want to go 4s with ridiculous amounts of grunt :)

Job done :)

whats the battery life though with that? I quite like to run times out of my stock motor, but it is lacking in power.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: Coyote on February 13, 2014, 07:21:08 PM
It was Dakarsg who flies with it on his Bixler, he got very bored before he had to land but hopefully Stu can reply with a flight time figure.

The motor had loads of power, but also meant that when not gliding you could cruise at much lower throttle than with the stock motor so if was pretty efficient
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: jwmachon on February 13, 2014, 08:19:36 PM
got a 3530 1400kv on mine with 9x6 prop

fully loaded eith gopro in case
5000mah lipo

cruises 30mph at 5a/hr
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: BigT on February 18, 2014, 08:29:33 PM
Assuming that you might not have much stick time (or even if you have) we all make stupid mistakes especially when getting new kit. So a basic check list.
1 Check control surfaces move in the correct direction
2 Launch into wind. Sounds daft but I have seen it done
3 Check c of g . video gear could have made it nose heavy so with marginal power you just wont get air speed and the elevator wont hold level.
4 If it is heavy you might need more power than your lipo can deliver.  A 20c lipo wont give as much as a 40c
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 21, 2014, 08:25:06 PM
hi all,

new bixler2 arrived.  now slowly crash proofing it.  also going to put all the new UBEC & ESC & motor.
going to build this one correctly & will be sharing my progress with you all, so please feel free to give me any hints & tips, suggestions & corrections so that I get a great FPV Bixler 2 ready to fly in a few weeks!

i will make a new thread for my build.....i know...you are all now waiting with baited breath!

Cheers,

lrosm
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: Coyote on February 23, 2014, 12:28:44 AM
First tip, ditch the control surface hardware, swap them out for stronger more secure hardware like style :

(http://www.brchobbies.co.uk/catalog/images/600526.jpg)

Some nice threaded bar and metal clevis`s will make that aspect as crash proof as you can.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 26, 2014, 09:44:09 PM
Hi Coyote,  yep i have some of these ready to install on the new Bixler.
i am slowly doing the paint job at the moment.  :-)
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: Coyote on February 26, 2014, 09:51:37 PM
Nice one, they won`t let you down
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: micarus on February 27, 2014, 10:42:55 AM
Hi M8, A little tip is to check the prop has the concave side to the rear , a prop blade is usualy a little aerofoil shape so slightly concave to the back side.

          Cheers  MIKE.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: BlueFlyer on February 27, 2014, 12:48:32 PM
I've built a few bixlers in my time. dont use hot glue at any point in the contsruction. use either gorilla glue (which can get messy) or UHU POR (which I prefer).

I also suggest you get some fibre tape and put some on the whole length of the underside where the two fuse joints come together... firstly to act as a sort of landing skid, protecting the foam, and secondly to double make sure the fuse halves stay together.

I also buy m2 threaded clevises and rods.
Title: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 28, 2014, 02:18:23 PM
Micarus, thanks for the tip, will do.


lrosm
Bixler 2

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
Title: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 28, 2014, 02:18:57 PM
Chris, no hot glue at all? Have you had failures?


lrosm
Bixler 2

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
Title: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on February 28, 2014, 02:19:37 PM
I have lots of tape to put at the vitrine of the plane and will be reinforcing there as a matter of urgency!


lrosm
Bixler 2

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: BlueFlyer on February 28, 2014, 04:01:08 PM
yes, i hot glued the tail on, and after about 6 months, it just fell off one day lol
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: lrosm on March 02, 2014, 09:54:37 PM
guess i won't hot glue the tail then!!
cheers.
Title: Re: total loss of performance HELP!
Post by: BigT on April 18, 2014, 10:50:35 AM
Elmers Glue All Max
This is a fabulous glue for foam and wood, better than Gorilla, not so messy and does not stain. I am a Pro Builder and stopped using Gorilla 2 years ago in favor of this http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Adhesives+Sealants/Wood+Adhesive+PVA/d180/sd3198 (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Adhesives+Sealants/Wood+Adhesive+PVA/d180/sd3198)

Very godd for foam repais as well..# It's stronger than the foam!