So I had my Falcon laying around not doing much and a cunning plan came to mind. I like the look of the new Z3 and though that it can't be that much different from the Falcon wings.
THUS THE ZEPHALCON IS BORN:
Cut the Falcon in half and cut out some fins from foamboard to sit into the recess left where the battery was:
(http://i.imgur.com/IPoD2YUl.jpg)
Cut a center section using the flite test style airfoil, with depron doublers to form the sides:
(http://i.imgur.com/bW1SBugl.jpg)
Closed over:
(http://i.imgur.com/uQV4AWhl.jpg)
Added another carbon spar for strength:
(http://i.imgur.com/5iqVEc4l.jpg)
And thats where it is currently. Will add some further foam spars to stiffen it all up, and also try and mount the plywood gopro mount that came with the Falcon. Then will need to fill in all the cutouts and holes that are there!
Plan is to run with 2x 2200 3S batteries with the 2200kv motor and 6x5 prop, or maybe even 2x 3000's with a beefier motor.
No idea how it will fly really, but should be fun finding out! :D
Cool, poor mans z3!
Looks great!
10 / 10 for effort :)
Cheers guys! Looking forward to progressing it, as I said I've no idea hpw it will actually fly! Thinking the small prop and motor may not give it enough power, may put on the 1100kv plus 10x6 folding prop that is on my versa instead.
Although the center section should provide lift, so it may be ok with the smaller setup. Any thoughts? I havent really planned any of this, just got home from work and started hacking!
Quote from: iwan_canobi on October 16, 2014, 12:14:58 AM
Cheers guys! Looking forward to progressing it, as I said I've no idea hpw it will actually fly! Thinking the small prop and motor may not give it enough power, may put on the 1100kv plus 10x6 folding prop that is on my versa instead.
Although the center section should provide lift, so it may be ok with the smaller setup. Any thoughts? I havent really planned any of this, just got home from work and started hacking!
The wing section doesn't look enormous......stall speed won't be tiny.
There was a really interesting thread recently on 3 cell vs 4 cell- lots of great posts from people far more knowledgeable than me.
While the conclusion was essentially- you go with whatever is most appropriate for the plane, having considered 100s of factors......
IMO there's little disadvantage to a 4 cell setup. Overpowered is better than under IMO. You can keep the weight fairly low to begin with despite a beefier motor by taking full advantage of the long nose and putting a sensibly sized 4s right in the front and get the C of G right.
Alternative would be to keep it dead light and floaty I suppose! I get the impression that such setups are a little less forgiving however- harder to get yourself out of trouble.
Although just reread your post- 1100kv is quite low. I'm sure it will fly- but IMO a 1400 would suit it better....I have a 1100 on my 900mm wing atm. It's ok. It needs a 1400 really but it does fly as it is- and it's on it's last legs anyway.
It's a homemade plane- if you spend too much £££ on it it ruins it IMO- botch it all together and see how it flies!
Love this. Cant wait to see how it flies!
I had thought of doing a Falcon with a stub fuselage so you could get a 2200 3S battery further forward, since I had to add a fair bit of nose weight on the last one.. But ading a centre section is a whole new dimension!
Re motor. I recently used a 1275 kV with a 8x6 prop on 3S on my Falcon and performance wasnt great. Found it works best with a 1500 kV and a 7x5. but on 4S maybe you are about right
Anyway waiting for the next stage :)
regards
Andy
Cheers guys. I had read the thread about 4S vs 3S and both my Skywalker and quad now run off of 4S anyway. I had a look and my 1100kv motor is fine with 4S but they recommend an 8x4 prop on it. Hmm. I've got a few 4S 3000's that would fit fine, maybe its time to just call it quits on 3S and offload all my batteries!
Will have a play and see what works best, might be an excuse to buy a wattmeter and work out what the most efficient setup is! :D
Some progress, added some foam spars and got it all glued together.
Motor and mount on, went with the 1100kv and going to go 4S:
(http://i.imgur.com/bME83u8l.jpg)
Starting to lay things out, using the OrangeRX 3 axis stabiliser:
(http://i.imgur.com/9roOEwNl.jpg)
Next i need to properly run the cables and then fold the top over, and make some hatches for access. Then will need to work out Fpv setup and cog with the camera on the front!
Well I did some more work today on this, and its almost complete!
Glued over the canopy, and then cut out a full length hatch. I had some magnets so added them to keep it closed, should hopefully be tight enough!
(http://i.imgur.com/LuCZHLCl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fbyCpMPl.jpg)
I then made the cutout and glued in the gopro case to the front. I'll use this as FPV cam to begin with and if it flies well then I'll add a board cam as well. I put the gopro mount in off center for that reason.
(http://i.imgur.com/0ngmgerl.jpg)
Things were going well so I taped over the center section with white gaffer tape to make it waterproof and a bit more durable. I then decided to test out the motor and the 8x6 folding prop I'd put on. Spun it up and went to full power and a second later (somehow) the prop caught on one of the vertical fins and obliterated itself and took the motor clean off the foam mount in the process! :( It was a cheap prop so no sure if it broke and caught the fin on its way off, or it caught the fin first and thats what broke it. No idea where it went but the screw was still on the prop mount so it must have broken at the base of the prop!
Anyway, I cut back the fins a bit for more clearance, and will need to order some new blades. Weather here is rubbish anyway for at least the next week so maiden won't be happening anytime soon anyway!
Still, happy overall and think it actually looks pretty cool! :D
Well, I finished it, and IT LIVES! And more importantly, IT FLIES! Quite well actually!
Zephyr 3 Style Scratch Build Wing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfg6gU32GXA#ws)
Flies great ! :)
nice one... I think the Z3 "style" has got it licked... the age old problem of getting a flying wing to balance properly without being too tail heavy has now been done away with due to the protruding blunt nose.
it's making me think about doing something very similar with my Go Discover... I hate the dome, and this looks relatively straight forward.
thanks :)
Wow, nice job that flies really well.
Quote from: BlueFlyer on November 11, 2014, 06:47:45 PM
nice one... I think the Z3 "style" has got it licked... the age old problem of getting a flying wing to balance properly without being too tail heavy has now been done away with due to the protruding blunt nose.
it's making me think about doing something very similar with my Go Discover... I hate the dome, and this looks relatively straight forward.
thanks :)
interestingly most of the genuine Z3 builds haven't needed the long nose and and the batteries are quite far back. But yeah it certainly gives you options.
A guy in YouTube, ant0nsmith, who flies a discover and seems pretty handy, smashed his fuselage up so glued the two wing half's together and made a small Z2 copy. It seemed to fly pretty well.
Whatever you do it will be interesting to see how it affects the stall speed as my friend has a discover and finds it pretty high.
Yes Its a very nice mod. The only issue with it is that (unless you make the stub fuselage very wide as here) the battery is long ways on. In a crash that is more likely to bend the battery against the front of the fuselage, camera etc. With the battery sideways on and wrapped in foam, its really nicely protected and has a lot of area to cushion it.
Anyway if I did it I would prob like to make the fuselage thin just to fit the battery long ways on and accept the consequences. I dont use a gopro so dont need it wide!
regards
Andy
^ yep..
If you do a thin nose, make sure to use a carbon rod or something on each side and tape it up nicely, then it'll be virtually indestructible. Even using lollipop sticks can work wonders for strength if you don't have any carbon.
only thing putting me off doing the aforementioned mod to my go-discover, is the motor mounting solution... I was thinking about hacking something together from depron and plywood... but then I remembered these:
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__34066__Wicked_Wing_Electric_Motor_Mount.html (https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__34066__Wicked_Wing_Electric_Motor_Mount.html)
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__34074__Wicked_Wing_XL_Electric_Motor_Mount.html (https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__34074__Wicked_Wing_XL_Electric_Motor_Mount.html)
It will be a chopped up go-discover anyway, but I would still want it to look decent
Yeah, I only made it so wide to increase the overall wingspan enough to try and make it more stable. It doesn't really look anything like the Z3, that part was more in jest! :)
It does allow loads of room though, it could easily carry 2x 3000mah 4S, although I'm not sure how well it would cope with the added weight.
Next up will be a board cam to sit next to the gopro, and maybe some kind of OSD/Autopilot. I almost lost where I was the other day and without a home arrow it makes things difficult! I've got battery voltage monitor OSD at the moment but thats all.
I'd steer clear of the Storm OSD for a wing... I've never been able to get it to work with a wing.. perhaps it's just me lol
What was wrong with it? I had mine in the Falcon originally, and also briefly in the Skywalker Falcon wing I had as well and it worked ok?
This will be further down the line anyway, need to reign in the spending a bit for a while! Although I say that every month! :P
I may actually try a mk2 with a brand new Falcon wing, and make the center section thinner and lower profile to improve the aero a bit. Will see how this one fares over time.
I've got a storm on my Falcon as well, I find it a bit slow in PA... and perhaps I could tune that some more, but it comes on back when I hit RTH, so that bit works well enough for me :)
Quote from: CurryKitten on November 12, 2014, 02:12:56 PM
I've got a storm on my Falcon as well, I find it a bit slow in PA... and perhaps I could tune that some more, but it comes on back when I hit RTH, so that bit works well enough for me :)
RTH is the Number 1 reason I have an AP for definitely, though Ive always used Ardupilot etc...
but RTH and OSD ... wouldnt really want to fly without it!
regards
Andy
Hmm, now this could be an excuse to have a play with Ardupilot.....tempting....
What do I need for a basic setup? Just Ardupilot controller + GPS + OSD? I have a minim osd, would that work?
Quote from: iwan_canobi on November 12, 2014, 04:24:15 PM
Hmm, now this could be an excuse to have a play with Ardupilot.....tempting....
What do I need for a basic setup? Just Ardupilot controller + GPS + OSD? I have a minim osd, would that work?
MinimOSD will work fine. It was originally designed for Ardupilot. Ardupilot will work with pretty much any GPS, though I would not recommend one of the tiny ones. The ones with a ( say 40 mm x 40 mm) groundplane and a little backup battery are the best. They get a signal much faster, so you can be ready to fly pretty much straight away. For Ardupilot hardware get a APM2.5 or higher.
The final items I would recommend are an external magnetometer and an airspeed sensor. Some versions of the Ardupilot ( and other FC's) have an onboard magnetometer, but I have found it best to mount the magnetometer on a wing well away from other metal, motors etc. Look around for a HMC5883 or HMC5983. They come on a little breakout board for a few pounds. ( You can also get GPS with a mag)
You can do without the airspeed sensor but its purpose is to compare airspeed and direction with speed and direction over the ground. With a bit of maths in the FC this is used to provide a much better heading for RTH if its windy ( by adding the vectors .. draw a triangle to get the idea), and its incredible the difference it makes.
The above list may be more than you bargained for, but with that on board RTH works really reliable. Miss any bits off and it doesnt work so well. Nevertheless you can get away with just a GPS and add the other bits incrementally and just change the settings as you go.
I cant compare Ardupilot with anything else as I havent used anything else. I have a PX4, but its basically a souped up Ardupilot and not tried it in anything yet.
Final thing is that Ardupilot is open source so you can hack away at it if you need something special. I did just that to get the flap working on my wing Tensor
regards
Andy
Wow, thanks for that! Looks like I'll need to do some digging then and read up on it!
I see you can get the clone boards for around £40? I know people usually don't recommend that though. Will have a hunt about, no rush anyways!
Quote from: iwan_canobi on November 12, 2014, 06:37:25 PM
Wow, thanks for that! Looks like I'll need to do some digging then and read up on it!
I see you can get the clone boards for around £40? I know people usually don't recommend that though. Will have a hunt about, no rush anyways!
I'm quite happy using other than official boards, but then I dont get any money for them! Though if you get a duff one its harder to sort it out so that is up to you. and the Ardupilot guys dont officially support the clones, though in practise its not such a big issue and most people on the diydrones forum seem happy to help. just dont mention its a clone!
regards
Andy
Some more flight footage if anyone is interested:
River flying with the DIY Falcon wing + Walrus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7hjm2pEz8I#ws)
A little update, this has been flying really well but over Christmas I decided to spec it up a bit to get a bit more range on it. I've added in the Storm OSD AP, and also the L9R receiver to open up the range a bit. I also got some vinyl roll and covered the underside as it was taking a bit of a beating! I ordered up some correx sheets as well and cut some new winglets as the original ones were just cut out of foam board and taped over, hopefully these will be stronger.
I just hope I haven't added too much weight and ruined the flying experience as it was great fun! Just need the weather to clear to get back out and give it a test!
(http://i.imgur.com/SKpJwYc.jpg)
looks good, I almost made a centre section for my hacked up wing, but I was lucky enough that the CG was spot on with the gear where I had put it. Mine's not FPV though, so I reckon I'd need an extra few inches up front for camera etc.
I keep looking at getting a small basic wing again, but remembered about this. It got stripped for parts ages ago but I always liked the way it flew, so I pulled it out of the loft the other day and decided to hack it apart as the center section was worse for wear. I'm re-building with a thinner center section and will have a single vertical stab, kind of like the Skywalker X6.
Progress so far -
(https://s4.postimg.org/wr8teh42x/IMG_3439_1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wr8teh42x/)
The wings are in pretty bad shape with loads of cutouts, but I'll just fill them with foam scraps.
I'm going to keep this super simple, no AP to faff about with, just an Rx and VTx and board cam. I'm fed up faffing about tuning things so this is going to be a chuck in the air thing for some fun. I've got a 1250kV NTM motor which should have plenty of power on 4S and 8x6 prop.
Looks like fun!
I know what you mean about adding compoments. You start with a simple cheap plane. Chuck a Lipo in there and you're in the air within 2 mins. Before you know it you have dozens of additional components and features. The planes value is 5x what it was before. You fly less and perform less adventurous stuff.
There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple and expendable!
Exactly, this airframe owes me absolutely nothing and I have all the bits required in my spares box to get it flying. Only thing I'm short of in the box is time though unfortunately! :(
Made some more progress on this, glued the wings on and spar in, cut out a vertical stabiliser and some elevons from some spare balsa I had. I also realised that the z3 nose I'd designed was exactly the right width for the center section I'd made, a total fluke but works well! The wings look a mess but they are structurally intact so I'm sure it will be fine once I fill the holes and laminate it.
(https://s26.postimg.org/xcp8zxnyd/IMG_3501_1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xcp8zxnyd/)
EDIT: I don't know why postimg keeps rotating my pictures! \0/