I live in a village of 2,000 inhabitants. In the village, close by houses, we have a Memorial Park / Sports ground, including cricket/ football pitch, tennis and bowls club. The facility is also regularly used by families walking dogs and taking children to an included playground area.
Following is an actual message sent for posting on the Village's Facebook page. I cannot believe how wrong this guy is. I am advising the Memorial Park Trustees on how best to respond - by pointing out the legal rules, regulations and guidelines he is obviously ignorant of.
Can you help me list all the errors??
"Please forward this message to the Village Facebook page to say thanks to the miserable chap that shouted at me for flying my helicopter on the RECREATIONAL/SPORTS field early Sunday morning and shouting his mouth off whilst banging on the fence with his tennis racket !! Please let him know my name is not "oi" it's john !! I've been testing my aircraft out at the early hours there for over 5 years and never encountered such a rude person in all my days !! I go down the very early to avoid confrontation and even when there's been a few folk about nobody has ever bothered me !! They've all been friendly and shown interest !! I am aware of the rules and have copy's if he would like to see them !! Please let him know that if he wants to stop me flying either last thing at night or first thing in the morning he can apply to the council to have a council approved sign put up and an order published to stop me and a few others tinkering around on the field causing absolutely no harm to anyone !! It's a hobby after all !! Sunday morning I was testing an aircraft that I'm putting together for a disabled chap ! Making sure it was right before I handed it over !! If you do here about it and in pretty sure you will please forward this polite message to him and let him know he needs to do his homework before he starts shouting at people !! Thanks Johnny !!"
Other punctuation marks are available.
Quote from: iPeel on October 13, 2015, 08:08:27 PM
Other punctuation marks are available.
Punctuation marks are exactly as originally written by the 'complainant'.
Post it on facebook and rip into him about noise pollution and consideration of others.
I'm confused as to who's side you're on?
The main "rules" that come to mind are the usual suspects about small unmanned aircraft (rc models to you and I):
166 Small unmanned aircraft
(1) A person must not cause or permit any article or animal (whether or not attached to a parachute) to be dropped from a small unmanned aircraft so as to endanger persons or property. There's no mention of this guy dropping anything from his helicopter so....
(2) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft may only fly the aircraft if reasonably satisfied that the flight can safely be made. I'm sure he would argue that he WAS satisfied he could safely make the flight, otherwise he probably wouldn't
(3) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions. This is about a guy flying an RC helicopter right? no mention of FPV so I doubt line of sight is an issue here
(4) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft which has a mass of more than 7kg excluding its fuel but including any articles or equipment installed in or attached to the aircraft at the commencement of its flight, must not fly the aircraft: No way of knowing how heavy his helicopter is from that block of text, but lets assume it is below 7kg
(a) in Class A, C, D or E airspace unless the permission of the appropriate air traffic control unit has been obtained; No way of knowing about the airspace, for all we know this village could be just outside an RAF base or airport or something... any more info would be helpful
(b) within an aerodrome traffic zone during the notified hours of watch of the air traffic control unit (if any) at that aerodrome unless the permission of any such air traffic control unit has been obtained. as above, for all we know this village could be just outside an RAF base or airport or something... any more info would be helpful
(c) at a height of more than 400 feet above the surface unless it is flying in airspace described in sub-paragraph (a) or (b) and in accordance with the requirements for that airspace. I've been around a fair few heli pilots and they certainly don't tend to fly very high at all, 10-20 metres at the most in my experience... I'm imagining this one isn't an issue
(5) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must not fly the aircraft for the purposes of aerial work except in accordance with a permission granted by the CAA. No mention of if he's doing aerial work, so I'm assuming he isn't
The other rules that usually get banded around are the distance rules... MUST NOT FLY... over or within 150 metres of congested area, over or within 150 metres of open air gathering of more than 1000 people, within 50 metres of property/vessels/structures not under control of the pilot and finally within 50 metres of any other person(30 metres when landing/taking off)
However, these are only applicable for small unmanned SURVEILLANCE aircraft, not small unmanned aircraft
I'm failing to see what this guy has done wrong, other than be a douche about it and whine about it on social media... that's his only sin from my point of view.
i found it confusing as well. Glad it wasn't just me ;D
I'm with BF here ... the guy sounds like he's simply doing what any one of us does whenever we go out to fly...
I would re-word the rant for him as follows:
Please forward this message to the Village Facebook page... To those who dislike me flying my RC helicopter on the common ground in the village:
I apologise for disturbing you but please be assured that my activities are perfectly legal and follow the guidance of CAP 393 (Air Navigation Order) Article 166. I make every effort to conduct my RC model flying when there is hardly anyone around, notably early mornings and late evenings. I have been flying regularly at this spot for 5 years and have never encountered any issues until the other day when a man verbally abused me from a distance. I would very much appreciate it in the future that any objections to me conducting my activities be carried out in a civil and polite manner. To my knowledge, the area is a public one and there are no notices on display or by-laws in place that prohibit RC Model flying. I am more than happy to discuss this in a friendly way in order to avoid any further confrontation, and so we can all benefit from the Village's Recreational Areas.
Yours, Johnny.
If someone woke me up in the wee hours of the morning flying their RC Heli i would be pretty annoyed too.
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on October 13, 2015, 10:04:39 PM
If someone woke me up in the wee hours of the morning flying their RC Heli i would be pretty annoyed too.
I don't doubt that lol
But he's having to make a decision of when to fly his RC Heli... later in the day when most people are awake and more likely to be in the vicinity of him flying the Heli, or a bit earlier when it's clearly much safer... if not a bit annoying.
My point is, apart from being awful at English and being a bit noisy... I'm failing to see what rules or laws he's actually breaking.
Breach of the peace? perhaps, but only a copper can determine that... call the cops, they'll come and ask him to stop... he'll stop.
or just go out and ask him nicely and if he's a knob about it... THEN call the boys in blue... they'll love you for that, because they've obviously got nothing better to do.
This is exactly the reason why I go out far far into the countryside to fly my stuff, whether that be LOS or FPV. with no-one to disturb or accidentally hurt, there's no problems.
Sorry guys - for the confusion.
I think this guy is an ignorant, dangerous idiot. The type that could easily cause an accident that ruins the hobby for all of us.
Blueflyer says:
"I'm failing to see what this guy has done wrong, other than be a douche about it and whine about it on social media... that's his only sin from my point of view."
Yes, I also think he is whining douche, but my main complaints are:-
- He is flying over a small playfield area - people walking, children playing - people playing tennis (they don't start playing until 8.30 am - the man yelling at the pilot was a tennis player, not what he calls "very early" flying is it?).
- He doesn't have any landowners permission to fly there.
- I suspect he may not have insurance.
Red area in picture is outline of Rec Ground.
12,000 volt elec pylon lines running across 'top' of playfield.
Tennis area (where the person was yelling at the pilot) light coloured area.
Note the 'congested' areas at the right and below the red area.
I believe from his comments he is flying both fixed wing planes and helis or multicopters here.
Would any of you be fully happy to have someone flying here ?
(http://s22.postimg.org/ewt2cj9vx/Mem_Hall_Rec_Ground.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ewt2cj9vx/)
Do the people walking and children playing have landowners permission to walk/play there?
I would happily fly a small to medium sized quadcopter on those fields, perhaps a small park flyer fixed wing too. I personally would not fly over anyone's home and would steer clear of the pylons, but other than that I see nothing wrong with this site.
I was just going off what you posted in the OP. with more information from both sides this would be a more constructive discussion.
Look, I'll be honest, I don't like RC helis at all, they're loud and annoying... so yes they're going to make people grumpy.
I think this is one of those "who gives a monkeys" threads ... I don't think he's going to give the hobby a bad name, maybe just himself in the eyes of the people he annoys.
All in all I don't think you should be expending your valuable energy on it but hey, up to you... not quite sure what it's got to do with us though.
Re the noise- my friends heli is loud, but the noise doesn't carry that far away for some reason. Many of my wings can be heard much further away.
Right guys, I'm going to end this Thread - as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks for all the contributions.
Final thoughts from me
Noise - There have been no complaints re noise - I assume whatever is being flown is electric - I will be finding out.
Surprise - I'm rather surprised anyone thinks this might be an OK place to fly. Accepting you haven't actually seen the place, I would never dream of flying in such a public place, so close to housing, people playing sport etc.
I have permission from 3 local farmers to fly on their land - I always ring first to inform them I'm coming and check there are no immediate problems with farming activities or the crops / animals.
I also have permission, which I have to pay £30 a year for, to fly at the neighbouring village, large (1 cricket, 4 football pitches) playing field which is well away from any housing. I fly here when I need nicely short cut grass for take off / landing during weekdays when no one is there.
OK, I'm with Steve W now then... can't see what the point of this thread was from the start so.... I'm out too.
Quote from: BlueFlyer on October 13, 2015, 09:59:23 PM
I would re-word the rant for him as follows:
Please forward this message to the Village Facebook page... To those who dislike me flying my RC helicopter on the common ground in the village:
I apologise for disturbing you but please be assured that my activities are perfectly legal and follow the guidance of CAP 393 (Air Navigation Order) Article 166. I make every effort to conduct my RC model flying when there is hardly anyone around, notably early mornings and late evenings. I have been flying regularly at this spot for 5 years and have never encountered any issues until the other day when a man verbally abused me from a distance. I would very much appreciate it in the future that any objections to me conducting my activities be carried out in a civil and polite manner. To my knowledge, the area is a public one and there are no notices on display or by-laws in place that prohibit RC Model flying. I am more than happy to discuss this in a friendly way in order to avoid any further confrontation, and so we can all benefit from the Village's Recreational Areas.
Yours, Johnny..p.s kiss my balls!
technically, there's nowhere on that field that's outside 150 metres from the housing, he would be better off another field away. depends what he's flying as to weather he's causing a serious problem for anyone.
Quote from: Ynot6 on October 14, 2015, 06:35:53 PM
technically, there's nowhere on that field that's outside 150 metres from the housing
you're forgetting the part where the "over or within 150 metres of congested areas..." rule is about small unmanned SURVEILLANCE aircraft.
CAP 393 article 167 para (5)
In this article 'a small unmanned surveillance aircraft' means a small unmanned aircraft which is equipped to undertake any form of surveillance or data acquisition.
There's no mention of his RC Heli being so equipped.
article 166 is for standard RC models under 7kg, and there is no mention of the 150m rule until article 167
Quote from: BlueFlyer on October 14, 2015, 06:40:14 PM
you're forgetting the part where the "over or within 150 metres of congested areas..." rule is about small unmanned SURVEILLANCE aircraft.
CAP 393 article 167 para (5)
In this article 'a small unmanned surveillance aircraft' means a small unmanned aircraft which is equipped to undertake any form of surveillance or data acquisition.
There's no mention of his RC Heli being so equipped.
article 166 is for standard RC models under 7kg, and there is no mention of the 150m rule until article 167
If it's considered 'unsafe' for a SUSA - presumably in case of electronic / mechanical failure, then logic says to me it's also probably unsafe for a LOS hobbyist heli, multi or fixed wing.
The more I go into CAA regs - the more illogical they are. They say you must not do this and that - if flying commercially, but do not say the same for the hobbyist.
If one of my grandchildren, whilst playing in the local Park, were to have an rc craft crash onto their head - I would be equally angry with the pilot, regardless of whether a hobbyist or commercial.
Quote from: wgt40w on October 14, 2015, 06:58:37 PM
If it's considered 'unsafe' for a SUSA - presumably in case of electronic / mechanical failure, then logic says to me it's also probably unsafe for a LOS hobbyist heli, multi or fixed wing.
Your personal logic doesn't count for anything in a court of law unfortunately. The fact of the matter is that the distance rules only apply to SUSA not SUA in general.
It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if they merged 166 and 167 into an all encompassing set of rules for all model aircraft, but it would certainly bother RC flying clubs around the country because their rule books would have to be re-written.
i still have no idea what the original thread was about? :goofy:
;D
It also hurts when you get hit in the face by a football / tennis ball / golf ball / stray pigeon.
It's a public area - at the end of the day, given that the guy had been doing it for "five years", if there was a danger he'd have had some sort of issue by now. Wouldn't he?
I remember a time when people didn't need to look up a rulebook when they went out to have fun. Sad that as we progress we regress in equal (or more) measures in other aspects of society...
Sounds to me like Mr Irate is one of those people who love to complain and would probably have been more effective (and/or less ignorant) if he'd just struck up a conversation rather than attempting to be the fun police.
Becareful what you wish for in asking for more clarity from the CAA about anything. Sometimes, a grey area is a good one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tbh I wld of just stuck with go kiss my balls.some people just take life so serious ignore em and carry on or throw some f.cks at em lolol sorry it's late.
Quote from: Steve W on October 14, 2015, 09:29:22 PM
It also hurts when you get hit in the face by a football / tennis ball / golf ball / stray pigeon.
It's a public area - at the end of the day, given that the guy had been doing it for "five years", if there was a danger he'd have had some sort of issue by now. Wouldn't he?
I remember a time when people didn't need to look up a rulebook when they went out to have fun. Sad that as we progress we regress in equal (or more) measures in other aspects of society...
Sounds to me like Mr Irate is one of those people who love to complain and would probably have been more effective (and/or less ignorant) if he'd just struck up a conversation rather than attempting to be the fun police.
Yeah most people say stuff like that right up until someone is hurt and then they yowl about how it could be allowed to happen. The same media outlets which bemoan health and safety gone mad are also the main cheerleaders for it. The problem is that there are enough people out there who lack sufficient common sense to act safely if left to their own devices. So the blame I place for the fact that it's illegal for me to, say, practice golf on an empty field nearby is not on over-zealous council officials but on the shoulders some thick twat who was probably doing it when there were people around. Same with most rules about everything.