Please can someone shed some light on Import Duty...from China and the US
Is it a matter of paying the VAT? what is the random £20 handling charge made by Parcel Farce?
Thanks
Get your total inc shipping and add 20% that will give you an idea of charges
Parcel Farce collects the duty from you and passes it to the tax man. They charge you for this despite the fact you have no contract with them to do this. I understand that some people have challenged this unsolicited practice and been successful in having the charge waived. On other occasions they have refused to part with the good's until the charge is paid.
Thanks guys!
Technically anything over 15 quid incl post can get stopped for tax/duty/handling. They seem to take item cost plus postage, ignore if its a gift or not, treat dollars as pounds, then add a random percentage between 20-40% as duty/vat/miscellaneous, then on top of that you pay a 'handling charge' of anywhere from 8-18quid which delivery firm pockets.
On a '$50' order I've been charged £26 plus some pence in charges before :-)
I can't understand how its legal to charge you for collecting tax, surely hmrc should collect tax as there job, you shouldn't have to pay for the privilige of hmrc outsourcing this to a delivery company.
My experience is china stuff rarely if ever gets taxed if std airmail (ie banggood or ebay).
Usa always does, as does anything fedex or ups.
I bought some 250 heli skids from usa a while back, cost £12 something in charges basically doubled the cost!!!
hobbyking international often gets stopped (I bought a 'cheap' vtx from hobbyking for £20.34 all in, charges were £11.40 (£2.40 'customs charge' plus £9 handling fee), so basically made it cost as much as an immersionRc vtx ;( ), but uk direct channel I've been lucky with but only smallish values ie under 60.
Generally your making a decent saving from international purchase so if you would break even if charges are added, then I figure its worth a punt, otherwise I buy from uk/eu which avoids the uncertainty, especially on high cost items where you want the warranty/backup for any problems without hassle of returning stuff which can then get stopped for duty again on replacement.
This is a few years old but worth a read
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=707319
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Duty and VAT are two different things.
VAT is always 20%.
Duty depends on the item, the maximum is 14%. You need to find the commodity code/ harmonized tariff code from this website: http://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff/sections (http://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff/sections) And then put that on your customs declaration.
Unfortunately most of the goodies we're interested in are 14%: Black Pearl screens, Fat Shark goggles (anything with a screen in it) are 14%. Digital cameras capable of recording for more than 29 minutes, with a resolution above 640x480 and a frame rate of more than 11fps and capable of having a file copied to their memory card are also 14%.
Quadcopters are usually classified as toys and scale models incorporating a motor, of plastic construction which is 4.7%. But it gets better...what if the quadcopter has a camera?
In that case HMRC need to work out which classification to give it. Is it a quadcopter or is it a camera? They call it the Essential Nature of the item. For example: would you classify and alarm clock as an alarm, or a clock?
So they look at the item and say "Would you buy the item if it was just an alarm?" No. That would be useless without the clock. "Would you buy it if it was just a clock?" Yes. A clock is still a useful item. So therefore alarm clocks are classed as clocks and charged at the rate of a clock.
Similarly a mobile phone is charged at the rate of a phone, even though it's also a camera, and a movie player and an internet tablet and whatever else.
With a Phantom 3 their decision is that the camera is the item that gives the product it's essential character. You wouldn't buy the item if it didn't have the camera on it. Especially not for £1159. And the camera is high spec. so therefore Phantom 3s are classed at 14% duty.
That then means that every one imported is liable to 14% duty plus 20% VAT.
That basically means that any UK business importing FPV gear or quadcopters, etc can't compete with the Chinese sellers who under-declare, use incorrect commodity codes and stick two fingers up at HMRC because they're in another country.
HMRC don't check anything like every parcel so most of the time it sails straight through for individuals. But businesses, importing in bulk to the UK get clobbered big style.
And therefore the UK government puts UK businesses (who pay corporation tax, National Insurance, business rates, and employ people who pay more NI, income tax, VAT on everything they buy, etc) out of business and encourages us all to buy from China from sellers who under-declare and don't pay any UK tax.
Some of these Chinese/ foreign companies are more brazen than that and put their stock in UK warehouses. Such as HobbyKing.
There's a website about it here: http://www.vatfraud.org/ (http://www.vatfraud.org/) Just looking at some of the eBay sellers doing this shows a several billion pound fraud happening with no action from the government.
There's a petition about it here: http://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105270 (http://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105270)
I shouldn't imagine it'll get enough signatures for anything to come of it though. We all like to get stuff cheap from China.
If you are ever thinking of starting a business selling stuff, make sure you start it in Hong Kong rather than the UK. You can afford to sell your products 34% cheaper and still make exactly the same profit as a guy selling the same product in the UK for 34% more. Plus, in Hong Kong there's no corporation tax on profits generated from outside of Hong Kong (whereas there's 22% of annual profits in the UK) and no income tax (between 20% and 40% in the UK) so you're better off all ways round! :-)
Quote from: jamesb72 on November 07, 2015, 09:22:38 AM, but uk direct channel I've been lucky with but only smallish values ie under 60.
Just a FYI...
The UK Direct Channel option will NEVER result in customs charges simply due to the way in which the items enter into the country.
The down side with this is that there is no defined timescale for delivery of the order... you're taking a punt that the China to UK warehouse shipment will be some time soon.
Quickest I've had a UK Direct Channel order is 5 days, longest it's taken is 3 weeks. Every time, the box arrives with ZERO chinese shipping labels and 100% UK parcelforce labels, including a source address of LuckyStuff ltd, Elmsett :)
----disclaimer---- I am no longer confident that the following information is correct, however I am keeping it in the thread for continuity only
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Hobbyking places all "UK Direct Channel" orders in with the normal UK Warehouse re-stock shipment. This re-stock shipment is correctly valued and declared to UK HMRC upon import.
The price you pay Hobbyking for UK Direct Channel is what they estimate it will cost "extra" to have YOUR items in THEIR normal China to UK warehouse shipment... so effectively the extra tax... plus the cost of delivering it to you once in the UK.
The shipment arrives in UK warehouse, then they remove all the UK Direct Channel orders and then ship it to you from the UK to UK using Parcel Force, hence no customs.
Quote from: BlueFlyer on November 10, 2015, 01:37:24 AM
The UK Direct Channel option will NEVER result in customs charges simply due to the way in which the items enter into the country.
Hobbyking places all "UK Direct Channel" orders in with the normal UK Warehouse re-stock shipment. This re-stock shipment is correctly valued and declared to UK HMRC upon import.
I'm pretty sure that's not the case, and just confirmed with a test order.
£245 order (Dom V3) is £14.80 direct channel, £12.44 UPS express - that would suggest duty/Vat is £2 - which would be a bargain !
My understanding (allegedly allegedly allegedly) was that direct channel is bulk freighted to UK, then posted with normal customs declaration from within the UK (well Norfolk?), obviously as the post doesn't come in through HWDC at Heathrow these labels mostly are not picked up for charges, but doesn't mean they couldn't be.
My advice is to check if item is still worth buying IF you get caught for duty/vat/charges before ordering, often it is, sometimes it isn't so you just need to make an informed punt.
Quote from: jamesb72 on November 12, 2015, 11:21:41 AM
I'm pretty sure that's not the case, and just confirmed with a test order.
a test order? that doesn't confirm anything.
The only way to confirm anything is to do a proper order and go through with it... I'm telling people here, right now, that EVERY item I have had delivered using UK Direct Channel has come to me from a UK address.
----disclaimer---- I am no longer confident that the following information is correct, however I am keeping it in the thread for continuity only
-----------------------------
The bulk shipment you speak of is not addressed to the customer, it's addressed to either A) Hobbyking UK warehouse, or B) A.N Other distribution centre. It is the Addressee that is responsible for paying any customs/duty/fees.
Therefore YOU the CUSTOMER will not get brought into it.... it will arrive in the UK "somehow" (it doesn't really matter to you the customer at this stage) it will then ONLY be addressed to you and send to you once in the UK
Therefore YOU the CUSTOMER will not have to pay customs/duty/fees as it's already been done and released by HMRC.... Hence why they call it UK Direct Channel. You're getting it shipped to you Direct from the UK.
Quote from: BlueFlyer on November 12, 2015, 01:36:05 PM
Therefore YOU the CUSTOMER will not get brought into it....
Sadly, that's not how it works, you are personally importing the item from outside the EU, so regardless of how convuluted the delivery mechanism you chose is, unless you can show duty/vat has been paid you are personally liable for any duty/vat - you may get away with it 10 times or 10 thousand times, but that doesn't mean no duty was due.
I'm not discussing this with you, just posting so others are not misinformed ;)
Quote from: jamesb72 on November 12, 2015, 01:48:07 PM
Sadly, that's not how it works, you are personally importing the item from outside the EU, so regardless of how convuluted the delivery mechanism you chose is, unless you can show duty/vat has been paid you are personally liable for any duty/vat - you may get away with it 10 times or 10 thousand times, but that doesn't mean no duty was due.
I'm not discussing this with you, just posting so others are not misinformed ;)
I'm not saying you're wrong... The item is destined for you and you alone are liable for charges/duty/fees etc... I get that...
However Hobbyking manage to get the items into the country, I couldn't care less how. But whatever they do under this scheme means that the customer doesn't pay any extra customs/duty/fees.
I'm not saying its legit or legal or the way its supposed to happen, but I am saying that 100% of all items I've ever ordered using UK Direct Channel option have been shipped to me from a UK address and therefore have never come with any customs/duty/fees for me to pay.
(specifically, a commercial unit in Staines, UK)
Any other option from hobbyking where they give your item to a shipping company and address it to you, you are more than likely going to get a letter to pay customs of some description.
I've just googled the address on my last 2 UK Direct Channel packages, works out it's a couriers called S C S Dragonet, when that is googled it works out they're affiliated with SCS Express, the company that caused (and in some cases still causes) major concerns with regards to holding packages ransom for excessive fees and charges some time ago.
more research led me to a Hong Kong to UK "Hand Carry" service where someone is bringing items into the UK as "Personal Effects" with "*Smooth Custom Clearance*"
all sounds dodgy as hell
I wonder if any of this stuff still applies nowadays (7 years later)?
HobbyKing no longer has a UK warehouse as far as I know?
Also, UK government insists that foreign companies now register for and pay VAT. I suspect Hobby King Hong Kong simply ignore that directive, but I noticed AliExpress has added UK VAT to my orders.
I'm not sure with hobby equipment but nearly everything now from abroad gets sent over with no tax declared and gets stopped, delayed and billed to me every time now, especially German companies I've noticed too.
It works both ways - I employ an accountant in ROI who take care of all of the VAT payments for software sales into the EU (VATMOSS) ... even if it's as low as 20p in say Finland it still needs paid every 3 months. If they didn't take care of it I'd have to register with every individual country and pay taxes separately with all different VAT rates. Totally worth them taking care of it for me, it would be a nightmare otherwise.