Hi all,
So I'm about to get my first racing quad and deciding on the equipment to for FPV seems a mine field. So the craft itself will fly via 2.4Ghz and the FPV gear will be on 5.8Ghz. I've been looking at getting 400mw for this but looking on the internet about UK legality it would seem that only 25mw is allowed? I have some questions that I hope you can help answer for me.
I plan on flying my quad freestyle for fun/practice and also race it when possible. I've heard race meets might move to 25mw so getting this would mean I don't need to change it however when I'm playing, will this band be powerful enough for flying through the trees etc? Is the 400mw I was looking at illegal as I don't want to risk damaging the sport however if it's not then surely this will give a better image?
I'm really struggling to work out what is and isn't illegal because as usual the internet throws up many answers. So it therefore thought, who better to ask than the internet! Oh the irony! ;D
HELP! (?) (?)
25mW 5.8Ghz is legal in UK.
Nothing wrong with your setup of 5.8 and 2.4.
25mw will be OK for short range. Say..
200 to 300m with no obstruction.
To go further on 25mw you need a tracker and directional antenna. Skyscraper has achieve over 1km with this setup.
I would suggest that you get a variable output vtx. HK sell some that you can swap from 25mw through to 400 or so.
This will enable you to fly legal - but upgrade if you feel it is not working out for you.
IMHO you will probably end up running on around 200mw as a good compromise.
Everyone flies 200-600mW I wouldn't worry aabout it.
You can fly with less and a strong receiver antenna but to begin with you will find a higher wattage tx more forgiving.
Most people use the immersion rc ones.
As Marcin posted 25mw or less is all you have if you want to stay the right side of the law.
Many people fly with higher power than this, but it seems for the race meets 25mw actually works a bit better because there is less cross band interference.
If you are not going far then 25mw is ok. if you plan on going a long way off then you'll probably want a bigger quad too.
there was a lot of confusion around this because the law is different in America. levels above 25mw are legal there if you have a ham license, however there is no such allowance in the UK, Ham license does not allow you to transmit from an airborne vehicle so you are still stuck on 25mw.
the secret with 25mw is decent antennas. a couple of 3 turn helicals and a decent skew on a diversity rx will give you a good picture as long as you stay out in front and don't venture off the sides too much.
/Steve
A 25mw VTX is the "close enough" legal choice. To be 100% to the regulation is a little more complicated as the allowance is actually 25mw Effective Isotropic Radiated Power, which means you have to offset the dbi value of whatever antenna you are using against the output power of the transmitter. This is to stop people using transmitters with highly directional antennas to increase the penetration in a specific direction, it's highly unlikely anyone would pull you up on this unless you were deemed to be interfering with any other equipment in the local area and Ofcom actually had the manpower to follow up on the complaint.
Thanks for the comments people..
I think i'll stick with 25mw then as its a 250 quad so i don't exactly plan on epic journeys etc. more close quarter flying etc. I can try and improve the signal with better antenna and it'll mean for race meets I'm setup.
...............however.......I may keep in the back of my mind one of those variable jobbies. If i'm not happy with the 25mw i'll try one of those.
Do you think 25mw will be ok in the trees as long as i have good antenna and with the quad in front of me?
Basically i live in the middle of nowhere with some lovely empty forests that i plan on exploring. I want to be able to fly around the trees not only for fun but for race practice.
you would be pushing your luck with anything other than flying past a tree trunk. if you fly out and the tree is between you and the quad then say goodbye to the video.
Put an RC operated buzzer on it!
/Steve
Sounds like you really want to use 25mw. Give it a go, when you get fed up of all the video break up then you can buy a new higher powered vtx knowing that at least you tried :P
I have flown my Immersion 25mw vtx approx 800 mtrs away....No problems....Thats on a plane though using a Rubber Duck on the vtx and a Patch on the Monitor. Since the Monitor has rssi % on Video signal, I can see how good it is.
Using a skew on a Multi would be a different story though.....5.8G is very vulnerable to leaves and trees, it wreaks havoc with the signal, skew or no skew....:(
:vulture:
What receiver do you have?
That is more important. ;D
Quote from: Ratty on December 01, 2015, 02:47:20 PM
What receiver do you have?
That is more important. ;D
Nothing yet. Looking at getting some fat shark goggles so any receiver that works really.
This VTx:
http://www.supremefpv.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=265 (http://www.supremefpv.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=265)
This VRx:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__83195__Fat_Shark_Raceband_5_8GHz_Module.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__83195__Fat_Shark_Raceband_5_8GHz_Module.html)
Some decent CP antennas, and you are all set to go.
That will be fine for whizzing around close to yourself with a few minor obstacles. Where you position yourself in the flying site is key, you want to be able to see as much as you can.
If you find it not good enough get a 200mw VTx.
(I know they are out of stock, but if you search you will find them somewhere)
If a FPV racing series states your equipment must be legal, then 25mw is your limit... however for personal use it's a whole different kettle of fish IMO...
There's no point in suggesting a 200mw over a 600mw... over 25mw is illegal, so you might as well get a reliable 600mw transmitter if you ever decide to venture into the world of illegal FPV and want to fly further than a gnats pube length away without using a £300+ diversity and antenna tracking system ;)
p.s. if you've ever broken the speed limit you've already committed a crime exponentially worse than using an over powered VTX for FPV... #justsaying #putthingsintoperspective
There is a perfectly good reason to suggest 200mw over 600mw.
If you fly with other racers, you will swamp everyone else if you are using 600mw and you will get less pilots in the air at once.
The VTx I linked do a 25mw and a 200mw version so swapping them over is very easy if you just want to use 25mw for official or indoor races, then swap to 200mw for flying with friends ect.
Quote from: Roundozo on December 01, 2015, 02:03:14 PM
Basically i live in the middle of nowhere with some lovely empty forests that i plan on exploring. I want to be able to fly around the trees not only for fun but for race practice.
My comments were based upon what the OP was saying here, not a scenario I made up in my head to justify a silly answer. no mention of friends, but plenty mention of living in the middle of nowhere and wanting to fly around the trees.
600mw will not disturb or cause anyone issues out in the sticks
My comments were based on this:
and also race it when possible.
Which is why I had already said this:
Quote from: BlueFlyer on December 01, 2015, 10:11:52 PM
If a FPV racing series states your equipment must be legal, then 25mw is your limit
I'll summarise then so we can be in agreement...
"legit" racing events - 25mw
messing around with mates in a small field - 200mw
practising in the middle of nowhere in and out of trees - 600mw+
Sounds good to me.
Just to add another option...
Practicing in the middle of nowhere in and out of trees - 200mw with a 3 turn helical on the receiver.
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With 5.8 you have to get used to flying through interference. This is really tough and really seperates the men from the boys IMO.
As a begginner, he will very likely pannic and crash when he first experiences more than a moment of interference. The more forgiving a setup he has, the less likely this will be.
Hence i would go for a high power setup to begin with- he has enough to worry about as a new pilot than video signal added to the mix. A 3 turn helical isn't a bad idea either provided he is careful to only fly in front of himself.
Also he needs an alarm buzzer too!
Whether he goes for 600mW or 200mW matters far less IMO- they are both vastly better than 25mW. If 200mW is much cheaper he could get 200mW and a 3 turn helical and a pair of clovers- that would be a great package.
Also- lets be honest- it's going to be a long long time before he's able to race in official races with others where they regulate the power output. Is his video Tx really going to survive until then? I doubt it. In which case, whatever he buys now, he doesn't need to plan months or years ahead until he gets to racing standard. Even if it does survive, he wont mind spending a bit of extra £ on a legal Tx for racing at this stage. He will already have sent 3x that amount on props and double that on batteries!
While will he have to wait a very very long time to race?
At a race I was at there were at least two pilots racing that had been flying for less than a week.
One had got his quad on Wednesday and was racing on the Saturday......
Thanks for all the helpful tips people.
Think I'll get higher for practice and 25 for race. Not much of an extra cost. I hope to be racing rather quickly in all honesty. I've flown rc helicopters etc so I think I should be able to pick up quad flying rather quickly. Mastering it will obviously take more time. I'm jumping straight into 4s power as why not. Yes I'll probably crash a bit more at first but hey, who cares but my wallet.
I'll update you all when it's all done and I'll also give some feedback on the relative equipment I end up getting.
Once again thanks for the clarification on the legality of 25mw and over.
Why not go straight to 1.3 from RMRC? Or is that not allowed in racing?
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You will find quads pretty cheap compared to helicopters. You cant crash (or even land rough) a helicopter and have it cost you 50p to get back in the air. :laugh:
Big T, 1.3 would get destroyed by all the 2.4 radios I would think, and most race events like to try and stay legal.
(none that I have been to have managed to yet, even though you have to prove youre insured, it would be void lol)
Ratty you're 100% correct. Most helicopter crashes I've had have been pretty severe. My current helicopter is sitting in bits in my man den. Was out flying along, happy as Larry and something failed on the board. Fell out of the sky like a brick from quite a height. Hit a tree stump on landing/crashing. Not much left of it now. :( Going to strip for parts and sell them I think. Had enough of helicopters especially as quads look like so much more fun.
Ouch, I feel your pain. I have not flown my helicopters since starting 250 racing. It is just sat in the cave collecting dust. :D
250s, are cheaper, easier and quicker to work on, immeasurably more durable and a whole lot of fun.
The chairman of the bfpvrl told me he went seeking an exemption from OFCOM for the UK nats earlier this year, they asked him what band & power, they said no exemption was necessary for such low power.
FPV race events atm are limiting power to 200mW on 5.8 - which is perfectly fine.
Quote from: Badlands on December 02, 2015, 06:28:07 PM
The chairman of the bfpvrl told me he went seeking an exemption from OFCOM for the UK nats earlier this year, they asked him what band & power, they said no exemption was necessary for such low power.
FPV race events atm are limiting power to 200mW on 5.8 - which is perfectly fine.
This is fantastic news, and could pave the way for an increase of the current 25mw limit in general
Quote from: Ratty on December 02, 2015, 11:32:55 AM
While will he have to wait a very very long time to race?
At a race I was at there were at least two pilots racing that had been flying for less than a week.
One had got his quad on Wednesday and was racing on the Saturday......
Racing within a week? Suspect you're using the word "race" pretty loosely. But fair enough.
Oh yer, I didn't say there were winning or doing well. But there were there, entered and having fun. ;D
That's good stuff Badlands, once we have a decent standard, getting 6-8 people racing at once should be doable.