Just saw this get posted...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBl2gMVF2mg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBl2gMVF2mg)
Maybe a funjet alternative ? ;)
I actually like it better than the big one! good stuff Chris.
Cheers
Charles
That looks awesome! If it has the stability of its bigger brother along with the speed he was going at it would be amazing! Wonder how long he will take to put it into production though.
Just watching this now and was about to post a thread...
Looks brilliant. So nice in the corners how it just doesn't change altitude.
Now this looks much more like it :)
It will on hinge though on the price I think.
You can guarantee it'll cost a bomb. Wait for the HK version? :D
Quote from: Steve W on January 29, 2016, 10:44:38 PM
You can guarantee it'll cost a bomb. Wait for the HK version? :D
I'm waiting for the HK version of the full size drak lol
Quote from: Steve W on January 29, 2016, 09:52:04 PM
So nice in the corners how it just doesn't change altitude.
That's just well trained thumbs, surely?
Would be even better co-ordinated if it had a rudder...
;D
rudders don't really work on planes like this. for a rudder to be worth including, it would have to be out back on a tail of some description. I've seen videos of people trying all sorts to attempt to introduce some kind of yaw control on a "wing" style aircraft... the conclusion is that a rudder only works (usefully) on a tail
Yep, agreed, but what I'm getting at, is that to do a smooth turn, without losing height, is partly down to good co-ordination of controls, be it only ail / elev.
Rudder helps.
But so does a decent airframe.
Quote from: Dillwhacker on January 29, 2016, 11:42:15 PM
Yep, agreed, but what I'm getting at, is that to do a smooth turn, without losing height, is partly down to good co-ordination of controls
I agree, I'd actually go so far as to say it's mainly down to good piloting skills.
Quote from: BlueFlyer on January 29, 2016, 11:45:36 PM
I agree, I'd actually go so far as to say it's mainly down to good piloting skills.
Yep.
Learn them from LOS in a howling gale TBH.
;)
I'll defo be in if the price is right, doubt it though
I'll wait for the HK one lol
Quote from: bignose13 on January 30, 2016, 08:29:14 AM
I'll defo be in if the price is right, doubt it though
I'll wait for the HK one lol
Cynical but true :)
Looks great though doesn't it
Looks bloody awesome, can see this taking off lol.......side note I think there will be real interest in wing racing soon..I've already started...
Really want this to be a reasonable (ish) price and I'll buy one for sure. Guessing shipping will be a killer as well
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
There's always the possibility of a forum group buy to save on shipping?
Someone scratchbuilt a Micro Drak:
Looks great.
I haven aid it on here before but I think the era of massive planes is nearly over. Aside from the (often significant) additional expense, the bigger stuff attracts much more attention and, unless you want to carry super heavy kit- the larger stuff doesn't really offer that many advantages. Even flight time isn't that different.
Tbs nearly nailed it with the cap- it's just a tiny bit too small. And it's thin profile means you weaken it a lot if you start stuffing it with an autopilot etc.
The success and following of mini skyhunter, mini talon etc shows the kind of market the mini Drak could get.
Especially if it's made from EPP! That will attract the racers. Although I don't think any plane with a long nose will be robust enough to handle racing. It's just too obvious a snap point.
Not sure how you can come to that conclusion when bigger aircraft are:
Capable of flying in worse weather conditions
Capable of carrying loads more in terms of payload
Capable of much longer range due to battery capacity
Can fly quieter (and are thus less intrusive) due to larger props and lower Kv motors being able to be used
Are inherently more stable (thus more attractive for FPV)
Are easier to find in the grass after landing ;)
Have more scope for experimenting with different layouts for equipment.
About the only thing smaller aircraft have going for them is ease of transport, and higher speeds. They're noisy, twitchy and limited in scope though.
Show me a small plane that gets an hours flight time while carrying a decent camera (with perhaps a pan/tilt setup) that is also stable. Even the Caipirinha turned to dog shit when it had too much weight onboard (i.e. another battery), so there goes the endurance or stability.
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on January 30, 2016, 03:42:52 PMI think the era of massive planes is nearly over. Aside from the (often significant) additional expense, the bigger stuff attracts much more attention and, unless you want to carry super heavy kit- the larger stuff doesn't really offer that many advantages. Even flight time isn't that different.
The success and following of mini skyhunter, mini talon etc shows the kind of market the mini Drak could get.
The main expense comes from what you put inside it... things like Autopilots, HD cameras, VTX, UHF are what make up most of the expense... and you'll have all that in a smaller plane.
Attracting attention is all about where and how you fly... nothing to do with the size of your plane.
bigger planes stay up for much longer.
success of mini skyhunter/talon? what success? how many people have one of those, compared to the amount of people with the larger aircraft such as the skywalker, skyhunter etc?
The market for the mini drak is already obvious... super fast FPV... at the most it "could" be a funjet ultra competitor.
IME the difference isn't as marked as one would think Steve.
Worse conditions/more stable is the same point really- in identical wind conditions the identical larger craft will fly more stable for sure. But I reckon a wing like the mini Drak, loaded up fairly heavy with battery will handle the wind pretty well I reckon. It wasn't tiny by the looks of it- 40"+ I reckon.
I mentioned the payload of you want to carry a massive SLR cam etc- fair point. But how many of us do that?
Carry capacity- true- but half of the big loaders fly pretty slow anyway- so their actual range isn't always as long as one would hope. Wings love being loaded up with a bit of battery weight- and fly damn quick with them.
Bigger plane needs bigger motors bigger escs more weight. If the Drak cruises at 7A with 8000mah of 5s the mini Drak will cruise at 4A of 4000 of 4s I reckon.
I have never lost my plane in the grass. But a beeper solves that issue :) wings are damn hard to find anyway regardless of their size.
How many layouts do you need? Just the 1 IMO- the best. Do people really change and configure their places all the time? IMO most people use their experience, fit the best setup, fit and forget after some testing and slight tweaking. And a nose like the mini Drak will easily allow the battery to be moved forwards and back depending on the batt you're flying with.
A small plane with a high kv motor is certainly noisy. Low kv and it isn't particularly IME. Wings are noisy for sure.
My Cap was one of the best planes I ever had. She took a MFD and a 3300 3s batt. It cruised around nicely for 30mins and covered good ground in that time. I suspect a number of the big loading planes (skywalker for example) would need to fly an extra 10 mins to cover that same distance. Who wants more than 30 mins anyway? I get bored as heck.
I flew the cap more than anything because it was so simple and compact.
The bigger planes have their place for sure. But their advantages often don't outweigh their disadvantage imo.
Quote from: BlueFlyer on January 30, 2016, 10:41:53 PM
The main expense comes from what you put inside it... things like Autopilots, HD cameras, VTX, UHF are what make up most of the expense... and you'll have all that in a smaller plane.
Attracting attention is all about where and how you fly... nothing to do with the size of your plane.
bigger planes stay up for much longer.
success of mini skyhunter/talon? what success? how many people have one of those, compared to the amount of people with the larger aircraft such as the skywalker, skyhunter etc?
The market for the mini drak is already obvious... super fast FPV... at the most it "could" be a funjet ultra competitor.
Agreed the components make up the bulk of the cost. Although the price of the Drak evens things up a bit. But you can salvage the components if you bash the airframe. And with the Drak being what, £250+? I would hope the mini Drak to be well under half that. <£100 would be a good price point.
Even flying in remote areas I still feel more comfortable with a smaller plane. Especially if it's a bit of a walk. Smaller planes bounce too :)
Flight time- see my thoughts above. There are exceptions of course. Skyhunter is fast and huge carry capacity. And MTD super long time. But i can't be the only one who gets bored with flights of >30 mins?!
The mini hunter is pretty well liked from what I have read. Hunter has been out an awful lot longer.
Mini Drak could well be an alternative to the funjet etc- although that nose is still too fragile even in EPP for a true bashing wing IMO for racing etc.
Provided it has a wingspan of >40"- I will get one, run it on 4s maybe a 4000 with a 1200kv motor and enjoy damn good flight times, medium range and the ability to rip it if needs be.
If you're really into super long flight times- flying 20 miles away of floating around for an hour- fair enough the big planes are great. But how many hours do they run up compared to a 40" wing left in the back of the car ;)
Sounds to me like you just prefer different things for different reasons to others... I don't see how that is going to sound the death knell for larger aircraft though, some quite like 'em :)
Quote from: Steve W on January 30, 2016, 11:19:59 PM
Sounds to me like you just prefer different things for different reasons to others... I don't see how that is going to sound the death knell for larger aircraft though, some quite like 'em :)
Not their death- but I suspect the mini versions of the well loved planes will soon be snapping at the market share.
Not as extreme as the mini quads- which must outsell all the other self build bigger frames with ease. But IMO the market is moving in a similar direction.
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on January 30, 2016, 10:48:38 PM
Bigger plane needs bigger motors bigger escs more weight. If the Drak cruises at 7A with 8000mah of 5s the mini Drak will cruise at 4A of 4000 of 4s I reckon.
physics is physics... air molecules don't get smaller just because the plane does, not everything scales down. larger wings are more efficient, it's a fact. a bigger plane will cruise at less amps than a smaller version of the same plane. smaller plane, smaller prop, smaller wings, less lift, needs more (relative) speed, needs to spin it's tiny prop faster, will pull more amps just to stay airborne.
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on January 30, 2016, 11:01:17 PM
Agreed the components make up the bulk of the cost. Although the price of the Drak evens things up a bit. But you can salvage the components if you bash the airframe. And with the Drak being what, £250+? I would hope the mini Drak to be well under half that. <£100 would be a good price point.
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAA <£100 you really are an optimist... and anyway, you said the era of massive planes is nearly over, not the era of the Drak... so you can't use the ridiculous price of the Drak to "prove" your point about how expensive an airframe is.
There are 3 versions of the full size Skywalker on hobbyking, all are between £80-£100, and in the UK right now. the cheapest I can find a funjet ultra kit right now is £72 so there really isn't that much of a difference considering you're putting several more hundreds of £££ inside them... but it's unfair to compare the two because they're both different beasts and do wildly different things.
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on January 30, 2016, 11:01:17 PMIf you're really into super long flight times- flying 20 miles away of floating around for an hour- fair enough the big planes are great. But how many hours do they run up compared to a 40" wing left in the back of the car ;)
that all depends on your flying habits... my life is far to busy to simply stop and fly a small wing at a random field or whatever... I have to (attempt) plan my flying days in advance and when I get there I want to make the most of it, so I actually enjoy taking my shelter, my table, my groundstation tripod, my chair, my toolbox and my battery ammo tin. it's an event for me.
people like different things, I'd certainly not say "the era of smaller airframes is nearly over" lol... just because I'm not into them anymore, there are clearly people around who like both.
I like the idea of a mini Drak, Chris knows how to make a plane and the clip I saw shows a real rocket ship.
The Drak has been " lawn darted" already and not taken the sort of damage you would expect, because the base of the battery bay is soon thick. If the Mini Drak is the same then it won't be an issue, me want lol.
I like that - lets get the G-man on it!
:-)
Quote from: BlueFlyer on January 31, 2016, 12:02:29 AM
physics is physics... air molecules don't get smaller just because the plane does, not everything scales down. larger wings are more efficient, it's a fact. a bigger plane will cruise at less amps than a smaller version of the same plane. smaller plane, smaller prop, smaller wings, less lift, needs more (relative) speed, needs to spin it's tiny prop faster, will pull more amps just to stay airborne.
Physic is indeed physics- I'm glad you cleared that up........but I'm not trying to compare the handling characteristics and efficiency of a huge scale 25kg model to a 500g wing. We are talking about the differences in efficiency between a 60" wing and a 40" wing- the molecules wont notice that much ;) Your points above are all true, but along with your list of "smaller X", you really should add "smaller, lighter X"- and the point I'm making is that the advantages of a 60" model over a 40" model isn't, in my experience, really as marked as one would think.
Quote from: BlueFlyer on January 31, 2016, 12:02:29 AM
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAA <£100 you really are an optimist... and anyway, you said the era of massive planes is nearly over, not the era of the Drak... so you can't use the ridiculous price of the Drak to "prove" your point about how expensive an airframe is.
I would comnsider the drak to be a big craft at 60". And a Drak in 40-45" form from ritewing would sell very well. His Z3 is around £130- I would have thought £100 would be a good ballpark figure. If it's moulded EPP and comes apart like the Z3 and Drak it will be a bit more perhaps. But, if people on here really see it as a bashing wing- they wont want to sink ££££ into it. I would love him to make a drak in Z3 size- it would make the Z3 redundant of course.
I stand by my statement- the era of massive FPV planes is become more marginalised. It wont happen overnight, and it will never be truly over of course- there will always be the niche of people who stick with them- and as everyone knows- they are better in certain situations. My point is, we often don't use the bigger craft's abilities to stretch beyond what the smaller equivalent could manage.
We also need to consider the legal issues and many of the advantages of larger planes can't be harnessed legally in many countries. Unless you want to fly around within LOS for an hour in a massive plane. Smaller craft are perfectly capable of breaking these laws of course- but if one were the type to fly beyond LOS etc- a smaller more discrete craft may be a better choice to do it. If the worst thing possible did happen- you hit a hang glider, aircraft or crashed into a bunch of kits on a field trip- it would be better to do it with a 40" craft than a 60".
Quote from: BlueFlyer on January 31, 2016, 12:02:29 AM
There are 3 versions of the full size Skywalker on hobbyking, all are between £80-£100, and in the UK right now. the cheapest I can find a funjet ultra kit right now is £72 so there really isn't that much of a difference considering you're putting several more hundreds of £££ inside them... but it's unfair to compare the two because they're both different beasts and do wildly different things.
that all depends on your flying habits... my life is far to busy to simply stop and fly a small wing at a random field or whatever... I have to (attempt) plan my flying days in advance and when I get there I want to make the most of it, so I actually enjoy taking my shelter, my table, my groundstation tripod, my chair, my toolbox and my battery ammo tin. it's an event for me.
people like different things, I'd certainly not say "the era of smaller airframes is nearly over" lol... just because I'm not into them anymore, there are clearly people around who like both.
Fair one on the Skywalker- the minis aren't that cheap- and it has been out for donkeys years so it's bound to have come down. But the components in the smaller craft would be cheaper. Not sure how the price of a Skyhunter compares to the mini version? There's no way Ritewing will sell a mini drak for similar sort of money the full size- it just wont sell. So he will have to cut his prices a lot- which may prove my point a little. I see yours- that components dwarf airframe costs- but I will counter that with many components in larger airframes are more expensive too.
Indeed- there are people who like both. Time will tell. My prediction is planes will follow the direction of mini quads- although to a much lesser extent. A bit like a Saloon outselling an Estate 5:1- the saloon is usually released first and the lower demand estate a year or two later.
Quote from: mutley2 on January 31, 2016, 09:38:38 AM
I like the idea of a mini Drak, Chris knows how to make a plane and the clip I saw shows a real rocket ship.
The Drak has been " lawn darted" already and not taken the sort of damage you would expect, because the base of the battery bay is soon thick. If the Mini Drak is the same then it won't be an issue, me want lol.
I fear he wont make it from the same EPP though. Unless the manufacturers of the full size drak can do it very cost effectively. Given the amount of work the drak has taken him- he will be looking to cut time and costs. If hes going for the bashing wing market- he may be persuaded to spend the £ on the EPP mould- simply scale everything down- not make it dismountable- and not offer a secret sauce motor. That way he could probably have them out for the summer.