Hi
I have been flying fixed wing LOS for 30+ years. I recently bought a Cheerson cx-20 (with all the gps bells and whistles) and a Walkera runner 250. I prefer flying the walkera.
I thought it would be cool to try out fpv, so bought a set of cheap goggles (Eachine vr-007). They seem Ok (though I have not much to compare with).
However, I am having real problems flying fpv. I know that it is best to keep the quad moving forward all the time, but I can't judge where the quad is in relation to me, or the ground. The lack of spatial awareness makes me nervous.
Any tips would be very welcome.
John
John,
It's simply one of those things you have to get use to. Just hover and look around, move away as you get confident. I'd get a simple OSD put in so you have a home reference point, altitude and distance data. It may help to settle your nerves knowing where your craft is in comparison to you!
regards,
GD
oh and welcome to the asylum :)
I know it's difficult, but try to stop thinking like you're flying it LOS... in other words, it doesn't really matter where the quad is in relation to yourself (at least not until you want to fly back to the take off area lol).
The beauty of FPV is that you're not anchored to your take off site or "home" position like you are with LOS.
If I'm honest, it's much easier to fly a fixed wing FPV than a quad, simply because it's always moving forwards... with a quad you can go left, right and backwards and it's really unnerving not being able to see where you're going.
It's a confidence thing which will come with practice over time. However I find goggles too immersive and isolating and prefer to use a monitor attached to the transmitter. I might spend the whole flight looking at the monitor but I know I can always look up from it if necessary. Sometimes however the model is not where you think it should be which throws you a bit. You could also try navigating to some features you have pre-picked, like a gate or a distinctive tree and use these as reference points, then simply fly backwards from them to near your start point.
I'm puzzled about your statement that it is best to keep the quad moving forward all the time. The beauty of a quad for FPV is that you can stop and take as much time as you need to spin it around and fly in any direction in order to figure out where it is in relation to yourself. Or try hovering with yourself in sight then fly backwards and sideways turning as you go but always keeping yourself in sight.
Unlike BlueFlyer I find a quad easier simply because you don't have to keep moving. You can stop and take your own time whereas with fixed wing you must always keep moving and not necessarily in the right direction if you get lost.
As an opposite point of view, I'd avoid the OSD! You will soon get used to it and I think the experience is better on a quad if you don't have an OSD. Keep it really simple to start with, maybe position the quad on the ground about a hundred metres away. Goggles on, take off, and just fly towards yourself whilst trying to maintain a constant altitude then land/drop it to the ground. Do that a few times then try and out and back. Also fly somewhere which has features. A nice big field is great but it can be hard to find your way back, so find a field with a tree in it and stand next to the tree. Then you've always got a reference. Also don't fly too close as it's pretty unnerving at first when it's buzzing around your head and you don't feel quite in control!!
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do circuits to get your confidence levels up... so like electrotor said, pick a few features but fly to them in order then back home... then do it again and again until it's 2nd nature.
when I fly from a new area, I always use up my first few batteries doing this circuit kind of flying, keep flying over/near to "home" so I get to recognise where "home" is from different directions.
you probably don't need me to tell you, but when you're just hovering and looking around using yaw, try and stay aware of drift. unless you're flying something with a GPS and position hold function you will definitely find yourself moving along when you don't want to be lol
Get yourself a spotter and have them talk you round the circuit.
Like the other guys have said, it will come with time.
Yep, like the others said, just a bit of practice. Soon you will have that moment when you're flying along and think " who's that random bloke standing in my flying field?" Then you realise it's you!
Thanks for the advice everyone, I will just persevere.
john
When I was learning to fly FPV, I took a lot of HD footage of my Flying area, going as far as I could go visually LOS.....Then, you just have to sit down and study the footage so you know what the ground looks like regardless of where you might be....It helps when you do this to have only 1/3 of the view in level flight devoted to Sky, because the sky is completely useless for navigating without the benefit of an OSD and GPS.....A steady fixed wing is easier than a Quad for me, it flies much longer, always goes forwards and if you run out of steam, it will at least glide....When you are learning, knowing what the ground looks like from the air is essential....As you become familiar, it gets much easier.....Im still smitten with flying FPV, and I have been flying LOS for more years than I care to admit to....LOS flying is extremely limiting in comparison to FPV flying for sure....Beware, FPV is addictive...!!!....:)
:vulture:
I'd say don't even think about LOS, and don't take the goggles off to get a LOS view of the model.
Imagine you are inside the cockpit... Get your brain into that mode, so you are 'inside' the model.
Fly out a bit, rudder it round so you can see yourself / home, then fly across a bit and do the same.
You will quickly learn what 1 foot / ten feet / 50 feet height looks like. Teach your left thumb to maintain altitude on the pitch (new thing for fixed-wing fliers).
If you keep forward movement, then you know that there is nothing nasty beside / behind you, cos you just flew over it. Backwards is very scary!
My first ten flights FPV were terrifying, really scary. That was on a DJI450 going careful.
A few flights (and a few crashes) on a 250 did wonders for confidence and learning.
Good luck & have fun!
Ive just started fpv on fixed wing, i know what your going though, i got an axn floater jet which is super easy to fly and learn on, i used google earth to learn a simple circuit, iam keeping well inside a distance that matches line of sight flying, ive also learnt to stand still and not turn around as when iam ready to lift the goggles i need to know where iam facing and where to look for the plane, simple but easy to overlook, ive learnt to trust my view even when the picture blacks out into the sun just dip the nose or turn away, stick at it i had my best days fpv last sunday spent 80% flying from the cockpit, still freaks me out though seeing myself on the ground from the plane i guess thats what they mean by immersive
Find a square field, and follow the hedges / ditches to get used to flying "in the cockpit". It'll help loads.
Anything new takes a bit of getting used to but the thing with FPV is there's no half steps. Once the goggles are on, you're away! I used a headtracker for the first time today which was actually quite good, it worked better than I thought it would. The only problem was that I have been so used to the attitude of the aircraft being tied to the image on the screen, that i forgot that with a head tracker looking up looks like pitching up - and the aircraft can be pointing very much earthward even though the goggle view is skyward. Had a couple of close calls before I got the hang of it!
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Quote from: elmattbo on March 23, 2016, 12:09:53 AM
Anything new takes a bit of getting used to but the thing with FPV is there's no half steps. Once the goggles are on, you're away! I used a headtracker for the first time today which was actually quite good, it worked better than I thought it would. The only problem was that I have been so used to the attitude of the aircraft being tied to the image on the screen, that i forgot that with a head tracker looking up looks like pitching up - and the aircraft can be pointing very much earthward even though the goggle view is skyward. Had a couple of close calls before I got the hang of it!
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This is why I like having the nose of the aircraft in shot for panning around ... had many a poo when the plane felt out of control due to the camera pointing sideways :D
wow, so many people do it in so many different ways? This has turned out quite interesting!
Quote from: Gundummy on March 27, 2016, 11:21:50 PM
people do it in so many different ways
I generally do it with my socks on, a couple of strong rubber bands, a sock filled with custard, and the help of an inflatable pink Pterodactyl.
:P
Quote from: elmattbo on March 23, 2016, 12:09:53 AMThe only problem was that I have been so used to the attitude of the aircraft being tied to the image on the screen, that i forgot that with a head tracker looking up looks like pitching up - and the aircraft can be pointing very much earthward even though the goggle view is skyward. Had a couple of close calls before I got the hang of it!
This is why I don't use a head tracker at all and if I do have my camera on a pan servo, I always map it to the rudder stick so I know that when I leave it alone, it centres itself.
Some people like having the nose in shot because it reminds them of what is actually happening... it's a camera on a RC plane, which is fricking cool..... others (myself included) prefer NOT to have the nose in shot as for them, it ruins the footage they're wanting to capture.
I'm a bit of both... I like to have the nose in shot in my live feed, just to give me that warm fuzzy feeling that - like you say - the attitude of the plane matches the view you're expecting. But I don't like having anything other than the scenery in shot on my HD footage.
Well, there's only one thing I can think of that hasn't already been said - use your ears !
When first FPV fixed wing flying, I found it very helpful and confidence inspiring using my ears. When my plane was flying towards or away from me (Home position), it enabled me to lift up my googles or look away from a monitor and more quickly , by using the sound, LOS locate my craft in the sky.
What I didn't bargain for was the fpv view made me think I was flying lower than I really was - when I lifted the goggles / looked away from the monitor I often found the craft was LOS much higher in the sky than I was expecting.
Quote from: Dillwhacker on March 27, 2016, 11:35:13 PM
I generally do it with my socks on, a couple of strong rubber bands, a sock filled with custard, and the help of an inflatable pink Pterodactyl.
:P
Any Pictures ;D
dizzy :laugh:
Whenever I fly near enough to myself to come off the Monitor, when I look up to find the plane LOS, its allways a LOT higher than I thought it would be....When you fly FPV, you can be beyond LOS a lot sooner than you think...
Im hoping to get a lot more time using an osd this season, its difficult to judge height without the benefit of an AP...distance is much easier though....
:vulture:
Quote from: Dillwhacker on March 27, 2016, 11:35:13 PM
I generally do it with my socks on, a couple of strong rubber bands, a sock filled with custard, and the help of an inflatable pink Pterodactyl.
:P
Pterodactyl -
What? One of these !!
http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/eastern-arsenal/pterodactyl-drones-chinese-air-force-service (http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/eastern-arsenal/pterodactyl-drones-chinese-air-force-service)
Having put many a newcomer through the basics of glider flying LOS i am amazed at this thread the hardest thing to teach somebody when they first start, is flying towards yourself.
I still firmly believe the best way to fly fpv is put yourself in the plane keep the goggles on by all means if your not confident launch with goggles on your forehead but drop them down when your climbing away :)
But fly where you know the area As Steve W said fly to the field boundaries have somebody with you who can tell you your height and speed it will boost your confidence no end :D
Stick at it one day it will click and you will start enjoying the view instead of worrying about your actual control :D
above all have fun
dizzy :)
Quote from: wgt40w on March 27, 2016, 11:58:02 PM
Well, there's only one thing I can think of that hasn't already been said - use your ears !
The only problem with this is that the first time you fly out of audible range, you start touching cloth again! Not to mention that if you're far enough out, your throttle changes may take a while to be heard due to the speed of sound. You might only be at half throttle but still hearing full throttle from a few seconds ago :D It can be disconcerting, especially if your heart rate is already up :)
It's a very strange sensation - that's why I always say to people make sure you're fully immersed, don't go from screen to LoS and back again, because your (well, mine!) brain sometimes struggles to adjust quickly enough.
So - stay immersed and just do a quick few circuits around the field boundaries would be my advice. If the worst happens, you'll know where your plane is. I found (and still do) that the fear of losing my kit was distracting from the experience.
Yeah I started out using my ears, but forced myself to ignore the sounds because as you push further out the delay gets confusing. Then if your flying with others it gets confusing again.
Just fly what you see.
To be fair. The best way to learn is to play by the rules.
Use a spotter!
If it helps... Maybe a buddy box as a get out option.
My feelings are. If flying fpv. Stay in fpv mode. Changing between views is quite likely to cause issues if you do not have a full rth system in place.
As soon as you get airborne. Stop thinking like an rc pilot. You are now in the aircraft.
So...
Power? How long cam I fly.
Visual. Where am I? Identify key land marks.
Airspeed.
Etc.
These are simple basics that all full size pilots learn. It just takes time to learn the.
Once you have a sense of space/ where you are in the sky. It gets easier.
Also... keep low. When you fly high - it's more difficult to know what you are flying above. This is because you are looking forward - not down. Result is that as you go up, you end up looking further and further away.
Rob
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Yeah good point regarding a spotter.
It really helps to have someone following the plane and calling out directions whilst you get your bearings. At least until you are comfortable in the air and not panicking.
I flew on my own for years, not out of choice or rebellion... but because there was no-one near me who flew RC, let alone FPV.
I travelled to meet a fellow forum member and having a spotter talking to you about what the plane is doing from their point of view whilst you're concentrating on flying it FPV is invaluable.
I've moved house now, and I have regular flying buddies... I'm at a point now where if there's no-one available to come flying with me, I just don't go.
Quote from: rob.thomson
Also... keep low.
Not too low though :D Climbing up gives you a bit more perspective. Having done some "shaving" of a field with a Bixler quite a few times, it can be very hard to determine which direction you're pointing in if you're too low he he. A quick climb and all becomes clear :)
Good thread this. Could it be a sticky for any newbies?
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don`t be tempted to lift the goggles off to see where it is,it`s a recipe for disaster. :+
Helps if you have an autopilot with cruise like the apm which holds its predetermined altitude. You can pull up and down all day long, it won't budge. This means you can take-off, hit cruise mode and then put your goggles on in a calm fashion. Then like the rest say, get to know your area you fly and have a mate with you.
Once you've built up confidence you will then do your own thing anyway. Oh yeah, easier said than done but don't panic.