I've been doing this hobby for a number of years now and have been increasingly frustrated with the lack of options available in the UK for EPP hot wire cut style flying wings. The US has loads of options (ritewing, sweepwings, TBRC etc) but we are severely limited here for options, and shipping from the US is horribly expensive.
So a while back I thought, why don't I just make my own company? So, over the last few months that's exactly what I've been doing. I've built up all the necessary tools to CNC hot wire cut and produce wings, I've sourced a UK manufacturer for extremely high quality, robust EPP foam and have been working on CAD designs for the first model to be produced.
So, I give you:
(https://s18.postimg.cc/v9khwk7fp/main_logo.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/v9khwk7fp/)
It's still very much in it's infancy so I don't have a website set up yet, and I'm still at the prototype stage but I wanted to announce here first to see what interest there is in the first model.
The first wing is a 1.4m 3-piece wing, with a meaty airfoil for stable cruising and fast, low and smooth runs. I hate wag, so I'll be doing everything I can to make sure this wing will fly as smooth and stable as possible, whilst still being manoeuvrable and easy to launch. It will have the following specs:
- 3 piece EPP construction
- 1 main spar and 6 strip spars
- 2 pre cut center bays for battery / electronics
- High quality balsa elevons
- Laser cut correx bay covers and winglets (possibly also vertical fins depending on testing results)
- Optional 3d printed camera nose
- Various motor sizes and power setup compatibility
- Speed range - 40-160km/h
Now some of that will change slightly as the testing continues, but those are my targets just now. Target price for the kit is £70 which I think is great for the quality you will be getting. Again this is a target but it shouldn't deviate too much.
I'll add prototype pictures soon, and I'd hope to be able to ship the first kits within the next 2 months, just in time for summer! :D
The plan will then be to move to designing the next models, in mind I have a small racing wing, and a larger forward swept design with a fuse.
So please feel free to comment, let me know if this first model is something you would be interested in and if you have any particular requests of what you'd like to see in the range. Once I'm happy with the design I'll get a site up and start taking orders!
I should note that this is not going to replace my day job, and I'm doing it all off my own back in my spare time so the initial batches may be small, but you've got to start somewhere!
I'm super excited about getting this off the ground and hope you guys will get some enjoyment out of my designs! :D
Fantastic!
Would you also be willing to offer custom cutting services for people who have plans but no machinery?
Awesome - nice one Ewan. Really looking forward to seeing your designs - you did some great things to eliminate the wag from your last one (can't remember what it was) so I expect a new level of super smooth flying wing :)
Cheers guys, looking forward to getting on with it and getting some out there in the wild!
Quote from: Steve W on April 06, 2018, 12:59:30 PM
Fantastic!
Would you also be willing to offer custom cutting services for people who have plans but no machinery?
I wouldn't rule it out Steve but not initially. Maybe once I've got the first few batches out of the way I would look into it, it just depends how much work the plans would need etc.
A definite 10/10 for what you are doing, great to hear.
Keep us updated on what's available and when.
PK :)
Excellent news! Really looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
(https://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTQwODgyNzcwNl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzc2NzIyMQ@@._V1_UX182_CR0,0,182,268_AL_.jpg)
Good for you, there certainly is a gap in the market for it.
I was never impressed with the designs from Flyingwings, but Im guessing you will be competing with them for sure.
If you need a Website developing, let me know, my Son could maybe help you out with that one..
:vulture:
Nice one, Best of luck.
Out of interest, what CNC hot wire did you go for? I'm halfway through cobbling one together myself at the moment...
Andy
Based on what you did with the Genesis to eliminate the waggle this should fly great!
1.4m might be a little large for my tastes. It seems as the wings get bigger so do the noise levels having big motors next to the trailing edge of the wing. What I have always fancied is the Joker: https://flyingfoam.com/product/joker-36/ (https://flyingfoam.com/product/joker-36/)
All the best and looking forward to more details..
Cheers for the support guys! :D
Quote from: Andy Sayle on April 06, 2018, 11:52:56 PM
Nice one, Best of luck.
Out of interest, what CNC hot wire did you go for? I'm halfway through cobbling one together myself at the moment...
Andy
It's a DIY one, based on this guide here -
http://www.rckeith.co.uk/cnc-hot-wire-foam-cutter/ (http://www.rckeith.co.uk/cnc-hot-wire-foam-cutter/)
I've done a few things a bit different but it's the same basic form and components. I'll likely build another once I'm going, there are a few frame designs that should be easily printable and a bit more adjustable.
Quote from: dp106 on April 07, 2018, 12:36:04 AM
Based on what you did with the Genesis to eliminate the waggle this should fly great!
1.4m might be a little large for my tastes. It seems as the wings get bigger so do the noise levels having big motors next to the trailing edge of the wing. What I have always fancied is the Joker: https://flyingfoam.com/product/joker-36/ (https://flyingfoam.com/product/joker-36/)
All the best and looking forward to more details..
Cheers Dave! Something like that is definitely on the cards, only I would prefer it to be a pusher rather than nose mounted motor. The swept wing I mentioned I was thinking of would be along the lines of the Nurf from the same place, but smaller. After flying my mini Drak again at the weekend I'm thinking I may focus more on the swept wing model first, if I can get something that handles close to the mini drak in a similar size then that's what I'll go with first!
Quote from: iwan_canobi on April 09, 2018, 10:48:29 AM
Cheers Dave! Something like that is definitely on the cards, only I would prefer it to be a pusher rather than nose mounted motor. The swept wing I mentioned I was thinking of would be along the lines of the Nurf from the same place, but smaller. After flying my mini Drak again at the weekend I'm thinking I may focus more on the swept wing model first, if I can get something that handles close to the mini drak in a similar size then that's what I'll go with first!
A pusher would be better for fpv however I reckon one on the nose would fly better, certainly launch easier! :)
After another crash this weekend with the Genesis (damn those hidden branches), I now have a large crack to repair. Should be ok once I've filled it with E6000 but who knows how much longer it will stand up to the abuse. May be needing a suitable replacement soon... :D
Good luck mate - looking forward to seeing your designs.
Hey Ewan, you know I'm a fan of wings, get some pics up ASAP and I look forward visiting your new website. :terrific: :terrific:
Cheers guys! I'm itching to get going at the minute but the weather really isn't playing ball for testing and I've had a bit of an issue with the CNC which means I need to wait on some parts. But fear not, I'll get some pictures and more details up as soon as I can! I'm about to place a substantial foam order, so once that's done I have no choice but to make it work! :P
If you want someone to test how durable they are I can sure put them through their paces lol
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Well I'm in for sure now as I've just placed an order for a pallet of foam! So watch this space!
It will take 2 weeks for the foam to be manufactured so hopefully I'll have some initial cuts ready within the next month. I'll get some prototype pictures up as soon as possible, they will be cut from EPS insulation foam just for testing as it's much much cheaper (although horrible to work with).
good luck with the new venture Iwan!
Cheers
I wish you the very best of luck and watch with great interest :)
Good luck fella, hope it all goes well for you.
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So things are progressing well, and my foam arrived at the end of last week!
(https://s18.postimg.cc/md97leafp/20180419_172916.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/md97leafp/)
I was away all weekend though but managed some test cuts, this foam really is great quality! Will be cutting more this week and hopefully will have some teaser pictures to show shortly! Thanks for the support so far! :D
Nice - I hope you already had somewhere sorted to put them. I know that I'd get at least two things removed from my body if I let my wife know that I was "just popping a few things in the spare room temporarily"
Ha ha, yeah I'm camped in my spare room just now but I'm on a short term lease and an eviction notice isn't far away I don't think. The foam fumes doesn't really help my case either! I will be relocating to the shed shortly, I've sorted a proper working area in there and foam storage!
Yup ..... That's a lotta foam !
You're going to be very busy :)
So I've been promising some teaser pics so here we go!
This will be the first model, I've changed plan and going with the forward swept wing idea first.
So it's 1.2m wingspan, with loads of battery room and space for a full size GoPro and an FPV cam in the nose.
Still prototyping vertical stabiliser options but hoping to get some flight footage up soon!
(https://s14.postimg.cc/jzb07f9gt/20180426_164412.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/jzb07f9gt/)
(https://s14.postimg.cc/88x2qitod/20180426_164423.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/88x2qitod/)
(https://s14.postimg.cc/xrpf3gd7h/20180426_164445.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/xrpf3gd7h/)
Final dry fit and happy with the layout, so now for the proper build! Should be in the air by next week.
(https://s18.postimg.cc/6qnyvanlh/20180502_213746.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6qnyvanlh/)
(https://s18.postimg.cc/vjxivxyw5/20180502_213755.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vjxivxyw5/)
Ooh, I do like the look of that one :) If you can keep it wag free (I hate wag too!) then you may well have a sale here...
Yep, mee too, would love to give that a try ;)
My brain got all confused then. It was like "it's a v-tail... no it's a wing. It's a wing with a V-tail !" That's your wag elimination thingy isn't it.
Looks great though, nice work
That looks well cool, interested to see how stable (and fast!) it is :)
Cheers guys! It's been a lot of work to get this far but I haven't got fired or divorced yet so it's all good! The design has been through quite a few iterations already but I'm really happy with how it's turned out. It will have plenty of options for builders to make their own as well.
I'll get some flight footage asap!
That's looking very nice with the vtail on there, any control surfaces on them or just for stabilisation? Be interesting to see how tough that centre section is, will it survive an encounter with a tree... 😁
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Quote from: dp106 on May 03, 2018, 12:50:13 AM
That's looking very nice with the vtail on there, any control surfaces on them or just for stabilisation? Be interesting to see how tough that centre section is, will it survive an encounter with a tree... 😁
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The vtail is just for stabilisation but there's nothing to stop you adding servos and just cut the trailing edge off to make a control surface, the foam is thick/strong enough for it. I had thought of that but will see how it flies without it first. You can also just build it as a single vertical stab in the center, but this means your ESC will need to go at the side of it -
(https://s18.postimg.cc/trczqm23p/20180501_213556.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/trczqm23p/)
It also means it's a bit harder to attach and it runs into the equipment bay hatch, but it's always an option.
The fuse should be pretty resillient, it has sparring in the sides and this foam has good 'bounce back'. I can jump on the wings and it doesn't leave a mark and the tips will bend 180 degrees without snapping (without spars obviously). I was thinking of offering a fuse option without the bays cut, so you could just cut your own slots for battery etc. Means a bit more build work for you but it would be totally solid, I'd be really impressed if you managed to damage it with that setup.
Just discovered this Iwan, fancy starting this project now I've gone and moved halfway round the globe :o
What was that about 'freeP+P' :laugh:
I'm sure you'll do well judging by what I'm seeing , best of British mate.
Once you've settled in how about a seaplane version to improve on the Skipper/Polaris design that also has inherent waggle that you'll be able to sort out hey ;)
Quote from: iwan_canobi on May 03, 2018, 10:17:16 AM
The vtail is just for stabilisation but there's nothing to stop you adding servos and just cut the trailing edge off to make a control surface, the foam is thick/strong enough for it. I had thought of that but will see how it flies without it first. You can also just build it as a single vertical stab in the center, but this means your ESC will need to go at the side of it -
(https://s18.postimg.cc/trczqm23p/20180501_213556.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/trczqm23p/)
It also means it's a bit harder to attach and it runs into the equipment bay hatch, but it's always an option.
The fuse should be pretty resillient, it has sparring in the sides and this foam has good 'bounce back'. I can jump on the wings and it doesn't leave a mark and the tips will bend 180 degrees without snapping (without spars obviously). I was thinking of offering a fuse option without the bays cut, so you could just cut your own slots for battery etc. Means a bit more build work for you but it would be totally solid, I'd be really impressed if you managed to damage it with that setup.
That sounds like a great option.
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That looks very unique, if it fly's as good as it looks then you are onto a winner bud!
How could I have missed this?!
Your build videos are some of the best out there Ewan. Really excited to see this.
May I ask who's helping you with the design of the wings? Or are you doing it alone ?
My 2p in no particular order.
If you're cutting out the bays for battery etc- can you just include the cut outs? That way people can glue them in if they wish. No need to offer cut outs and without cut outs that way.
Can you describe the epp quality ? Is it like the flying wings epp? Or ritewing? Both classed as EPP but totally different material imo.
Motor mount and motor angle have always been v tricky IMO with homebuilt wings. Easy for builders to balls up and getting it wrong just ruins a wing. How have you solved this ?
I'm convinced a huge number of people buy wings based on how they look. Goes a long way to explaining the high sales of the TBS cap 1. Consider black EPP (which looks crap covered in hot glue!) or some aggressive styles and paint jobs on any promo videos and build threads.
I really like the stabilizers on the ritewing race models. These look great. Consider offering them- even if they don't do much ;)
Are you pre cutting grooves on the wings for the spars?
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on May 03, 2018, 02:15:52 PM
May I ask who's helping you with the design of the wings? Or are you doing it alone ?
Doing this on my own, I have some nice CAD software for wing design so I've been using that to define the wings. I've had some advice along the way from various people on the design but it's my own labour of love! :D
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on May 03, 2018, 02:15:52 PM
If you're cutting out the bays for battery etc- can you just include the cut outs? That way people can glue them in if they wish. No need to offer cut outs and without cut outs that way.
Not really, the fuse is actually 3-piece due to the nature of cutting with a hot wire, so I cut the center then the sides separately. So it would be an extra cutting step to cut the fuse cutouts from the scrap, if that makes sense. Easier for me just to offer a full version with no cutouts, and it would be stronger that way any way.
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on May 03, 2018, 02:15:52 PM
Can you describe the epp quality ? Is it like the flying wings epp? Or ritewing? Both classed as EPP but totally different material imo.
It's more dense than the flyingwings stuff I've experienced, I've only used Ritewing moulded stuff but I'd say it's pretty close to that in terms of weight and density. It's super strong, I'm really happy with the quality of it.
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on May 03, 2018, 02:15:52 PM
Motor mount and motor angle have always been v tricky IMO with homebuilt wings. Easy for builders to balls up and getting it wrong just ruins a wing. How have you solved this ?
I have a few plans with motor mounts to try before deciding on the final option, I'll update on this when I'm closer to release. The angle will be fixed based on the mount so you shouldn't have to mess with it.
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on May 03, 2018, 02:15:52 PM
I'm convinced a huge number of people buy wings based on how they look. Goes a long way to explaining the high sales of the TBS cap 1. Consider black EPP (which looks crap covered in hot glue!) or some aggressive styles and paint jobs on any promo videos and build threads.
I really like the stabilizers on the ritewing race models. These look great. Consider offering them- even if they don't do much ;)
I think this is probably true, but I much prefer the look of black EPP. My foam supplier can do white also but wouldn't mix batches so I just went with black to begin with. For the stabilisers do you mean the small fences on the wing or the large central vertical stabilisers? I had considered doing these with correx but I much prefer the look of the V-tail. I may still experiment with others and can laser cut correx so it's not out of the question, but I wanted to avoid it looking like I'd just copied the Ritewing design to be honest, and I like the look of this just now.
Quote from: Billy_boy_2010 on May 03, 2018, 02:15:52 PM
Are you pre cutting grooves on the wings for the spars?
Yes for the main spar, no for the strip spars. The main spar hole will be bored so no messing around with caps. The strip spars are thin enough that you just need to run a knife down and embed them in so it's an easy part of the build.
I definitely think you're right to continue down your own path - if people like it, they'll buy it. Copying off RiteWing is an option, but then you're just a copy of RiteWing... make them copy you ;)
I like the idea of round bored spar holes....No Caps to glue in or come out....Carbon Fibre tubes...of GF?
As long as the boring jig is accurate.
The holes need a little clearance to allow for glue coating.....
:vulture:
Carbon fibre, still to decide on the diameter at the moment. I'm using 4mm solid carbon rods just now, the price goes exponential when you go bigger than that so I'm just trying to work out what's best. Got some 6mm on order but it's coming from China so will take a bit longer.
Looks good! When can I buy a kit? Cash waiting......
Quote from: Andy Sayle on May 04, 2018, 09:25:17 AM
Looks good! When can I buy a kit? Cash waiting......
Hoping to have some kits available in the next month or so, I'll offer up here before anywhere else! :D
Shotgun the first kit please! Want some cash now?!
Quote from: Andy Sayle on May 04, 2018, 10:55:24 AM
Shotgun the first kit please! Want some cash now?!
Ha ha, sure, I'll take that as a pre-order request! Won't take any cash just now till I'm happy with the product though, give me a few weeks to get everything finalised and I'll make a post with the kit contents and final cost including shipping.
I should still be on target for £70 kit cost for forum members (+shipping) but I think I'll need to retail a bit higher outside of the forum, the build costs are creeping up with each refinement!
Ouio ok
Quote from: iwan_canobi on May 04, 2018, 11:02:18 AM
Ha ha, sure, I'll take that as a pre-order request! Won't take any cash just now till I'm happy with the product though, give me a few weeks to get everything finalised and I'll make a post with the kit contents and final cost including shipping.
I should still be on target for £70 kit cost for forum members (+shipping) but I think I'll need to retail a bit higher outside of the forum, the build costs are creeping up with each refinement!
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Huh?
Quote from: iwan_canobi on May 04, 2018, 11:30:37 PM
Huh?
Lol. Um no idea on that one! May have replied to the thread from my pocket!
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If you consider crowd funding let me know. We wish you the Best of luck.
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Quote from: BigT on May 05, 2018, 09:32:20 AM
If you consider crowd funding let me know. We wish you the Best of luck.
Cheers, I had thought of that but I've got most of what I need now, I'll be working in batches to begin with so once the first ones are out I can order more materials for the next etc.
I kind of purposely went all in, I figured that if I stretched myself it would force me to make it work! :P Bit of a risk but hey-ho, you only live once!
're the spars- can you use 2 or 4 spars of 4mm instead of a single large one? see how the price affects it?
But I believe people are moving away from a single central spar and more towards v thin spars directly ab9ve and below eachother. Saves weight, use cheap spars (and fibreglass perhaps to help the rf pass through) and I suspect it's stronger than a big central spar system.
I would go for 1 4mm central (if That!) and 2 spars above and below each wing would probably be more than enough
It's also easier to balls up a central spar imo and then the wing isn't straight
I agree - forming an 'I-Beam' configuration with 2 x thin spars makes the wing SUPER stiff.
Its quite EZ to do too - just cut a nice straight line & push the spar in.
Cheers guys, yeah each wing has 3 strip spars, 2 in the leading edge, 1 in the trailing edge. The wings are super stiff with this configuration, there's no real flex at all. The 4mm spar is to attach the wings to the fuse (and each other) though, and to make sure you get the correct alignment. I did wonder if I could use strip spars for this as well, it's still an option.
It is a bit of a headache really to get right, I want this to be as straightforward a build as possible so trying to hit the right balance of pre-configuration and what the customer needs to do themselves. I know most people here would be fine cutting their own spar slots but also a lot would be a bit daunted by that.
Quote from: iwan_canobi on May 07, 2018, 10:13:04 PM
It is a bit of a headache really to get right, I want this to be as straightforward a build as possible so trying to hit the right balance of pre-configuration and what the customer needs to do themselves. I know most people here would be fine cutting their own spar slots but also a lot would be a bit daunted by that.
Not really what you asked, but hopefully the below is relevant
You're entering a tough market imo. What % of fpv is quads and what % wings? 99% is quads imo.
Remove the off the shelf drone phantom sales from the above- you're diy wing can't really be compared to off the shelf products- and you're left with the enthusiast sales who don't mind doing a bit of diy. Of all these "enthusiast" sales I suspect 90%+ of them are mini quad sales.
So- as a % of the market- you really are selling to 10% of fpv flyers- not 90% of them.
You also have fairly strong competition. Ritewing and high end DIY airframes. £££££ and very time consuming build. and £30-60 banggood wings.
How you choose to price and place yourself in the market is up to you. I would suggest a few promo videos of mountain surfing, cloud surfing (in a legal country of course) diving under trees and racing 6" above the ground would make a great selling video.
However- if you want to half compete against the banggood stuff- making it super easy to build would be a damn good start. This IMO means having every slot and groove pre cut for essential components. perhaps not tx Rx etc- but certainly spars and perhaps battery bays etc. If this plane needs half a dozen spars glued in- hot wore a 1-2mm groove in the perfect places (super quick after you have built a jig!) would just make building easier for customers. It also makes them ballsing it up less likely- so your product doesn't get blamed when it doesn't fly straight.
Again- I point to the success of the tbs cap- and say it was successful because it was as straight forward as a wing build could be so appealed. I have never seen a wing review where the builder said "I wish it was harder to build".
Maybe you want to keep buyers options open- and so won't cut grooves for tx Rx gps etc, and that's sensible IMO. But spar slots are well worth it imo!
Quote from: iwan_canobi on May 03, 2018, 02:45:19 PM
Doing this on my own, I have some nice CAD software for wing design so I've been using that to define the wings. I've had some advice along the way from various people on the design but it's my own labour of love! :D
It's more dense than the flyingwings stuff I've experienced, I've only used Ritewing moulded stuff but I'd say it's pretty close to that in terms of weight and density. It's super strong, I'm really happy with the quality of it.
I have a few plans with motor mounts to try before deciding on the final option, I'll update on this when I'm closer to release. The angle will be fixed based on the mount so you shouldn't have to mess with it.
I think this is probably true, but I much prefer the look of black EPP. My foam supplier can do white also but wouldn't mix batches so I just went with black to begin with. For the stabilisers do you mean the small fences on the wing or the large central vertical stabilisers? I had considered doing these with correx but I much prefer the look of the V-tail. I may still experiment with others and can laser cut correx so it's not out of the question, but I wanted to avoid it looking like I'd just copied the Ritewing design to be honest, and I like the look of this just now.
Designing alone? What fun! Happy Flyers made some design mistakes by all accounts- but I'm sure you know what you're doing :)
Glad it's dense and black EPP. FW stuff is a bit misleading imo. I'm used to the old school rite wing stuff.
Motor mounts from the flyingwings feel so rubbish imo. And a heavy crash changing the angle of the fuse throws them off. Ritewings latest mounts are pretty great imo. IBCrazy seems to use similar to flying wings.
I was referring to the large central stabilisers. Agree with you not wanting to copy Ritewing. Perhaps the race versions will need some large stabilisers of some kind?
A v tail and forward swept wings is def a unique look!
Iwan,
I have an overstock of 8mm carbon tubes, if ya interested ,
email
[email protected]Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, thanks for this, will drop you a mail!
First two kits heading out to beta testers, hoping to get some impressions on the build and get the flight setup finalised asap!
(https://s7.postimg.cc/vz8qovet3/20180509_205546.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vz8qovet3/)
Oh very nice - does it have a name yet?
Call it the Bazinga :)
Looks nice, I would extend the fuz some behind the wings Trailing Edge though.....about 60mm should do it, maybe even 75mm..?
Otherwise, its going to be noisy and nose heavy for sure......The idea is to have some length in the Fuz so you have a bigger choice of Lipo weights and position.
It's going to be nose heavy if you dont do this.
Ideally, the Flight lipo would be over the CG, meaning you could put any Lipo in there and not worry about being able to balance it...Keep that in mind.
:vulture:
The fuse has already been extended a bit from the first version as it was extremely tail heavy, so needed extended forward rather than backwards. There is loads of room for lipos and it can take a fair amount of weight, in fact it needs a minimum of 5000mah really to balance correctly, the CG is far forward on forward swept wings, almost at the leading edge where the wing meets the fuse.
It's not too noisy, certainly not any noisier than a regular swept wing.
Quote from: Badlands on May 10, 2018, 10:04:47 PM
Oh very nice - does it have a name yet?
I have a few in mind but haven't settled yet, soon though! :)
Looks ace, can I buy one yet?! Ha ha!
Andy
Ha ha, not quite yet! Got a good few test flights last night (until a capacitor on my ESC exploded!) so I've got some changes to implement and build a 'Proto2' which should hopefully be much closer to production ready. So still another month or so I reckon before I can start taking orders.
What I can say so far is it's nice and stable, and super easy to launch even with a 1.8kg loaded weight. Proto1 is a heavy beast to get the CG right but I've lengthened the fuse for my next ones so it should be much easier.
It is coming though, don't worry! :D
Quote from: iwan_canobi on May 11, 2018, 10:07:57 AM
The fuse has already been extended a bit from the first version as it was extremely tail heavy, so needed extended forward rather than backwards. There is loads of room for lipos and it can take a fair amount of weight, in fact it needs a minimum of 5000mah really to balance correctly, the CG is far forward on forward swept wings, almost at the leading edge where the wing meets the fuse.
It's not too noisy, certainly not any noisier than a regular swept wing.
I have a few in mind but haven't settled yet, soon though! :)
Hi m8,
"the CG is far forward on forward swept wings, almost at the leading edge where the wing meets the fuse."
I almost wonder if we are talking about the same model here...?.....The sweep forward on this model is minimal to say the least. The CG is not going to be where you predict it to be.
There is no way you will be able to load up this model with a 5000mah Lipo and get it to balance, unless you plan on putting the battery over the wing somehow..?
(https://s9.postimg.cc/dau1mk0zf/20180509_205546.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/dau1mk0zf/)
:vulture:
It depends if you are looking at the leading or trailing edge sweep, but anyway, my comments are not based on predictions but real world experience, this flies best with the CG about 1cm back from the leading edge. At 3cm back it's unflyable.
For the first prototype with the shorter nose I had a 5000mah 4S as far forward as possible, 2x runcam HD2's in the nose, an FPV cam, and a bunch of lead weight to hit the CG. That's why I've extended the nose for the next revisions. So as I say it's from testing that I'm saying the config, not prediction.
Quote from: iwan_canobi on May 11, 2018, 10:12:41 PM
It depends if you are looking at the leading or trailing edge sweep, but anyway, my comments are not based on predictions but real world experience, this flies best with the CG about 1cm back from the leading edge. At 3cm back it's unflyable.
For the first prototype with the shorter nose I had a 5000mah 4S as far forward as possible, 2x runcam HD2's in the nose, an FPV cam, and a bunch of lead weight to hit the CG. That's why I've extended the nose for the next revisions. So as I say it's from testing that I'm saying the config, not prediction.
Hi M8,
Oh, okay pleased it's worked out, Im still surprised though.....What did you use for a motor, did it come out of a washing machine.....:)
Seriously though, a 5000mah 4S is useful capacity so what prop / motor combo are you using..?...Is it an amp gobbling screamer or a cruiser..?....and more importantly, will it work as either?
What is the wingspan again..?
:vulture:
No worries, I'm testing various motors - so far I've ran a 1400kv 2836 with 9x5 prop which is more of a cruiser. Yesterday I was testing a 3638 1800kv monster on 8x6, that's heavy and screams but it can still slow down quite a bit. All up weight is around 1.8kg but it still has a decent glide slope, the wingspan is 1.2m.
So it should be a good all-rounder, there is space for 2x 5000's in that bay (on their side) and I reckon you could hit the CG with that config for a long range endurance platform!
I know it probably sounds wrong, but this foam is dense and the rear is bulky, couple that with an ESC far back and the vtail and it means you need a lot in the front to offset it.
This is awesome, definitely a lack off epp planes! I was going to do similar a few years back but I could only import 4m x 2m blocks from Germany at the time and my wife would of killed me!
If you want some build manuals done let me know, I did the build manuals for Bormatec and helped set up fpv1.de with photography/digital media. Good luck with your Ewings!
Quote from: ClippedWing on May 12, 2018, 11:51:51 AM
This is awesome, definitely a lack off epp planes! I was going to do similar a few years back but I could only import 4m x 2m blocks from Germany at the time and my wife would of killed me!
If you want some build manuals done let me know, I did the build manuals for Bormatec and helped set up fpv1.de with photography/digital media. Good luck with your Ewings!
Cheers man! Once I have the build process down I planned to do a one-sheet overview then a detailed build video. Will maybe give you a shout for some guidance though, thanks!
Yeah the wife is already getting close to killing me as I've been spending so much time on this. Basically get home from work, have dinner then disappear for the rest of the night! I keep trying to tell her it's a business and just a hobby but I don't think she's buying it! :P
Great progress! Based on my experiences with manufacturing rotor blades for the very small model Autogyro market I would urge you to start looking at post and packaging options sooner rather than later. Especially the method of packaging. I was completely taken by surprise at the number of orders we had from overseas and the cost of shipping from the U.K.
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Quote from: iwan_canobi on May 12, 2018, 01:16:22 PM
Cheers man! Once I have the build process down I planned to do a one-sheet overview then a detailed build video. Will maybe give you a shout for some guidance though, thanks!
Yeah the wife is already getting close to killing me as I've been spending so much time on this. Basically get home from work, have dinner then disappear for the rest of the night! I keep trying to tell her it's a business and just a hobby but I don't think she's buying it! :P
Yes please do! More than happy to help! Fpv1.de is the largest distributor now in Germany!
Quote from: BigT on May 12, 2018, 01:18:22 PM
Great progress! Based on my experiences with manufacturing rotor blades for the very small model Autogyro market I would urge you to start looking at post and packaging options sooner rather than later. Especially the method of packaging. I was completely taken by surprise at the number of orders we had from overseas and the cost of shipping from the U.K.
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Thanks for this, it's solid advice! Every time I post on instagram any update I get a few people from all over messaging me asking when it will be available! I've been looking into boxes but I have no idea what postage outside the UK will be! Will need to get checking.
I'm well into the build of the next version which I'm hoping is 90% production ready. I'm off on holiday for a week on Thursday which will slow things a bit, but I'll be itching to go when I get back!
Hey guys, just a small update! I'm still working away on this but it's taking a bit longer than I initially planned. Turns out I was a bit naive in my estimations of when I'd be able to start selling kits, I underestimated the amount of time development takes and also the amount of hours there actually are in a day. It's fairly simple to make one plane, but making them repeatable and manufacturable is a whole other ball game!
Rest assured though I am still going and will have an excellent product ready as soon as I'm able! It may end up being a double launch of the forward swept design and also a medium sized wing - stay tuned for more on that soon!
Cheers
Quote from: iwan_canobi on June 06, 2018, 01:30:01 PM
Hey guys, just a small update! I'm still working away on this but it's taking a bit longer than I initially planned. Turns out I was a bit naive in my estimations of when I'd be able to start selling kits, I underestimated the amount of time development takes and also the amount of hours there actually are in a day. It's fairly simple to make one plane, but making them repeatable and manufacturable is a whole other ball game!
Rest assured though I am still going and will have an excellent product ready as soon as I'm able! It may end up being a double launch of the forward swept design and also a medium sized wing - stay tuned for more on that soon!
Cheers
If you can bring out a medium size wing similar performance to the Genesis without the waggle I'm sold! 😀
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Hey all, I've got all my holidays out of the way and have been working hard the last few weeks testing and tweaking and things are progressing well! I'm nearly done with the design, just got a few tweaks to make to finalise some of the hardware (motor mounts etc) and I should be ready to start things moving production wise!
I put together a little montage of some clips just to prove it does actually fly! :P
https://youtu.be/dPenO7UbxnM
I'm hoping to have initial kits ready in the next 3-4 weeks, I'm not taking orders yet but if you think you will be interested in a kit then could you ping me a message or post here (no commitment, just want an idea of numbers from here).
Price wise I'm looking at £80 posted (UK only) for the kit, including:
Full EPP airframe (2x wings, center section and vertical stabilisers)
8mm main carbon spar
6x strip spars
Correx bay covers + winglets
Balsa elevons
High quality control horns
Vinyl decals
3d printed motor mount
It's been a hard process to get here but I'm excited to get this into other peoples hands and see what decent pilots can do with it! :D
Sold. Take my money!
Andy
V.interested - well done mate.
Nice, I'm interested,
If we are registering interest then put me down on the list also....
rgds,
Marcus
It looks very stable, I do like it ! :)
Cheers guys, getting really close now. I've got to build this final version and make sure I'm happy with the way it flies then I should be good to go!
Here's a little sneak peak at what will be in the box...
(https://s22.postimg.cc/l1j4hg0dp/20180709_124524.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/l1j4hg0dp/)
My PayPal account is starting to twitch...
:D
So it was a successful testing weekend for the 'production' version and I'm really happy with its performance so I'll be starting to make kits this week and hopefully be ready to ship the first few next week. I've had to order some more foam for the fuse sections so I have enough for about 4 kits immediately, then the rest will take another few weeks for the new foam to arrive.
I've modified things a little with the vertical stabs, they will now be correx with a 3d printed base. This will sit flush on the wing and gives the correx the correct angle. It means it's easy to swap them out if they get a bit tatty and you could even experiment with different shapes if you wanted to. The foam fins were hard to get angled correctly and were hard to fix onto the wing, I think the correx solution is much nicer, looks better and will last longer as well due to the easily replaceable nature.
So I'll open it up for 'pre-orders' on a first come, first served basis. Send me your email via PM and I'll confirm your place in the queue and send you a paypal invoice once your kit is ready for shipping. Price for you guys is £80 shipped (to the UK only for now, contact me if you're outside of the UK and I'll see what the postage costs are), once I go live on the web they will be £90 + shipping, so whilst it's not an earth shattering discount it's still saving you roughly £20.
The kit contains:
(https://s8.postimg.cc/sk0vxf8b5/kit.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/sk0vxf8b5/)
Full EPP airframe (2x wings, center section and sidewalls)
8mm main carbon spar
6x strip spars
Correx bay covers + vertical stabilisers
Balsa elevons
High quality control horns
Vinyl decals
3d printed motor mount + stabiliser mounts
I'll make a detailed post regarding the recommended setup and I'm putting together a build guide although it's fairly self-explanatory anyway.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/wt5lzn1ap/proto.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wt5lzn1ap/)
Thanks for your support guys, I'm looking forward to seeing them get built and flown! :D
Well done, can you give us a list of recommended hardware please? Maybe one for duration and one for hooning?
Great work, interested
Had to make a new account as I can't remember my old details.
iwan_canobi, won't let me pm you as I'm a new member.
Any other way of contacting you ?
Quote from: chilau2000 on July 23, 2018, 02:48:13 PM
Had to make a new account as I can't remember my old details.
iwan_canobi, won't let me pm you as I'm a new member.
Any other way of contacting you ?
Drop me line at
[email protected].
Quote from: BigT on July 23, 2018, 12:47:46 PM
Well done, can you give us a list of recommended hardware please? Maybe one for duration and one for hooning?
Of course! So there is loads of room for batteries in the front bay and the motor mount can either mount 'outboard' or you can cut away some foam and mount it 'inboard'. CoG is critical though and this frame tends towards being tail heavy so you need to be careful how heavy a motor you hang off the back depending on what battery you plan on using. There are loads of configs you could potentially use, but here are some I've flown with in my testing:
Duration -
1200kv motor (36 size maximum) - 9x6 prop
60A ESC
4S battery 5200mah Multistar will work but depending on motor weight you may need some extra nose weight. Up the battery size to 6000mah or something around 6-700g weight and you will be bang on. The frame and wings can cope no issues with the extra weight, it's just the CG that needs considered.
Hooning -
1800kv NTM V2 3536 with 8x5 prop
80-90A ESC
4S battery as above really
Somewhere in between -
1400kv motor, 8x5 prop
Motors I've tried so far -
1800kV NTM - https://hobbyking.com/en_us/propdrive-v2-3536a-1800kv-brushless-outrunner-motor.html
This is a heavy little beast which has tons of power and is cheap. It's been fine for me but unless you want to add some nose weight then you need to mount it 'inboard' which can cause some heating issues unless you cut a bit more foam away for better airflow. It's easily do-able though. Draws about 50A full throttle but can get a mini drak above 100mph so this will be close to it (I haven't completed any proper speed measurements on this airframe yet, all flights were intentionally on a bare airframe with no AP or flight control).
1400kv NTM 2836 https://hobbyking.com/en_us/propdrive-v2-2836-1400kv-brushless-outrunner-motor.html
I have this on my flyingwings Genesis on 8x4 and it's been fine, I tried it on 9x6 on the E-wings and it killed the bearings after 2 flights so I can't really recommend it too much as there may be quality issues. It's quite light though and on 8x4 has a decent amount of power. More of a cruiser though.
1200kV NTM https://hobbyking.com/en_us/prop-drive-v2-series-2836-1200kv-530w-brushless-outrunner-motor.html
Can't recommend this, it performed well on 9x6 for 2 flights again and the bearings crapped out on me. NTM motors seem to have quality control issues with bearings which is a shame as they are nice when they work and fairly light for the 'claimed' power capability.
Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 1400kV - https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aerodrive-sk3-3536-1400kv-brushless-outrunner-motor.html
This is a nice quality motor and has performed well on 8x5 props. Like the 1800kV NTM it needs mounted inboard if you are using a multistar or similar battery so you need to keep an eye on temperatures. Mounted outboard it is totally fine. This is a nice 'jack of all' motor for me, can cruise at low amps and has decent poke when you hammer it.
Turnigy L3010B-1300kv - https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-l3010b-1300-brushless-motor-420w.html
This one surprised me, it's super cheap but actually performed really nicely with an 8x5 prop. It's no speed demon but the earlier video I shared uses it so it has a fair turn of speed still.
Turnigy SK3 1250kV - https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aerodrive-sk3-3542-1250kv-brushless-outrunner-motor.html
This is a really nice motor but it's pushing the weight a bit. Consider this if you are putting bigger batteries in. I plan to test this one on 5S with an 8x6 prop for some super fast cruising. Runs on 4S with a 9x6 without breaking a sweat.
In terms of servos just get something with decent torque. I've been using Turnigy 2.5kg torque 13g metal gear ones which have been fine.
Quote from: iwan_canobi on June 29, 2018, 11:00:27 AM
Hey all, I've got all my holidays out of the way and have been working hard the last few weeks testing and tweaking and things are progressing well! I'm nearly done with the design, just got a few tweaks to make to finalise some of the hardware (motor mounts etc) and I should be ready to start things moving production wise!
I put together a little montage of some clips just to prove it does actually fly! :P
https://youtu.be/dPenO7UbxnM
I'm hoping to have initial kits ready in the next 3-4 weeks, I'm not taking orders yet but if you think you will be interested in a kit then could you ping me a message or post here (no commitment, just want an idea of numbers from here).
Price wise I'm looking at £80 posted (UK only) for the kit, including:
Full EPP airframe (2x wings, center section and vertical stabilisers)
8mm main carbon spar
6x strip spars
Correx bay covers + winglets
Balsa elevons
High quality control horns
Vinyl decals
3d printed motor mount
It's been a hard process to get here but I'm excited to get this into other peoples hands and see what decent pilots can do with it! :D
Yep count me in looks fantastic well done ;)
Heres a little unboxing of the kit one of my beta testers has done -
https://youtu.be/6bDlTJ-FPxA
Just a reminder - ping me a PM if you want a kit! Will be shipping next week for the first few orders and I have a few in already.
I was about to order a kit but following the latest dirge of new legislation I am now seriously considering selling up all my long range and semi long range kit. I am too old to be in the dock charged with stupidity!
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Yeah it is a concern, but I think the exemption in the UK is still upheld for members of FPVUK etc.
My plan is just to stay away from anywhere populated, which is fairly easy to achieve up here thankfully.
EDIT: Just saw your posts elsewhere, what a crappy situation to be in. Just move up to Scotland, plenty of wide open spaces here where no-one bothers you at all! :D
Only just seen this thread. Great work mate looks like a quality wing! :D
Well it seems I'm going through all the correct steps for starting an RC company, and last night I finally ticked off 'nearly burn down your production line with a laser cutter fire'!
Left it cutting some foam for 5 minutes whilst I went into the house to get something, came back out to smoke pouring out of the shed door! Major panic frantically throwing things out of the way and much coughing later I had it extinguished (so glad I was prepared enough to buy a fire extinguisher!). It looks like the laser has went to the home position after finishing the job but then has stayed on for some reason, handily there is a hole in the case at the bottom right at the home point for clearing debris, so it burnt through the shelf underneath, then set fire to the foam blocks stored underneath. Also obviously set fire to the foam in the cutter itself which vaporised the acrylic window and thankfully I reached it before the table top went up as well.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/3kcavao6p/20180729_215024.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3kcavao6p/)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/vx7sls4s1/20180729_215301.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vx7sls4s1/)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/5ownwecyp/20180729_232516.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5ownwecyp/)
So my production will be a bit delayed until I find an alternate source for the correx cutting. I've been on to a few companies today so I'm just waiting on quotes coming back now. Can't afford to replace the laser just now, and to be honest I'm a little scared of them after that experience.
It won't stop me, but was a bit of a fright seeing the smoke as I imagined the whole place would have been engulfed and all my hard work over the last 8 months gone!
Onwards and upwards, heres a picture of my last prototype getting tarted up for some website shots:
(https://s8.postimg.cc/8x159au1t/20180729_124841.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8x159au1t/)
Bloody hell!
Golden rule: never leave machinery unattended lol
That was lucky but a good lesson to us all not to leave things unattended.
One thing I am sure you have under control but I thought I would mention it. Insurance! Make sure you are covered as you are running a business you need to be insured correctly. If the fire had damaged your house or a neighbors would you have been covered?
I assume that you had the appropriate fire extinguisher and an easy way to shut off the electrics before using the extinguisher? You will probably never it again but get a new extinguisher that is suitable for the materials you are working with and are in the workspace.
Health and Safety often gets taken too far and becomes a joke but a basic risk assessment and risk mitigation strategy is something everyone should do. Most people do it without knowing i.e. knowing not to stretch too far on a ladder or unplugging the toaster before sticking a knife in to un stick the toast.
You just need to try and think of every eventuality and how to remove the risk. Even a basic smoke detector might be able to alert you to an issue, though you might need a heat detector one not a smoke one. It might be worth having 2 fire extinguishers 1 by the door and another at the other end. You don't want to try and escape with a fire between you and the door without an extinguisher. Don't store flammable materials near an exit etc..
Sorry if it sounds OTT but you had a lucky escape, it could have been so much worse.
Hope you get production back up and running soon. It's great to see your work.
It must be something in the phase of the moon. I had a LiPo fire last week. A Tipple charge 3s 1000 pack when bang during a charge. I was in the same room but it was between me and the door. Having had a lipo go off before I am really cautious now and put all lipo a in an old ammo box during charging so I just lifted the box out of the room. Room was full of nasty smoke. In retrospect I thought the battery looked a little puffy but the internal resistance was low. Glad it wasn't one of the 10,000 packs though.
I had one do the same thing a couple of months ago, fortunately like you I do my charging inside a hand grenade container (pro tip: it's really important to remove all your hand grenades first if you decide to do it this way). I also have a smoke alarm perched over the top, luckily it was a 500mah 3s that I had accidentally set to 4s and also hadn't realised that the balance lead wasn't connected or else the charger would have noticed the incorrect cell count. Anyway because it was so small I was able to open the lid and just blow out the flames.
It's still bloody scary though, especially if you forget to remove the ammo. I went through all the lipo stock yesterday with the resistance checker and it's surprising just how lipo batteries degrade even when not being used. I used to have a 60 inch YAK that ran on 6s 5000 packs, I had 5 of these in there own ammo box labelled YAK, memory being what it is. The planes gone a year now but the batteries are still with me all on storage charge, 3 are knackered, puffed up and would be risky to charge.
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Yep, it was a lucky escape but it won't be a mistake I make again! Can't afford to replace the laser for the time being anyway so I've found an external company that will cut it for me. Saves me time I suppose, just costs a bit more than the raw materials only.
Never had a lipo fire thankfully, although it does make you a bit blase sometimes about it, I really should get a better setup. I keep my lipos in an old metal toolbox but I usually just charge them on a tabletop which isn't ideal.
Ched I had bought the fire extinguisher specifically for this so made sure it was the powder type for electrical fires. Worked perfectly although I didn't kill the power first, my instinct was just get the flames out first then kill power, probably not ideal but I didn't really have much time to think. Definitely won't be leaving things unattended from now on!
You want to watch those powder extinguishers. My first lipo fire I used one of those as it was all I had. Put the blaze out ok but 1 week later all the bare metal the powder covered in my workshop went red rusty.
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Ah, thats a good bit of advice! I managed to keep it localised but there is a bit of dust on a few things so I'll need to give it all a good wipe down. Took a break from doing anything last night to re-group, but will clear up and start cutting foam again tonight! :D
Damn that was a close call, still no one hurt and lesson learned. Onwards and upwards !
Ewan,
I have 3 & 4mm correx in black, send me the DXF's, can do them for you, no probs.
We have all been there, a high pressure air feed, at the nozzle would stop that, ive had no fires since fitting one
cheers Rob
Quote from: foamster on August 04, 2018, 04:33:56 PM
Ewan,
I have 3 & 4mm correx in black, send me the DXF's, can do them for you, no probs.
We have all been there, a high pressure air feed, at the nozzle would stop that, ive had no fires since fitting one
cheers Rob
Hey Rob, thanks a lot for the offer but I've managed to get somewhere local to cut it for me until I sort a replacement laser. Hoping to get one sorted asap! Appreciate the offer though!
Will definitely add an air feed this time also, I had the bits to do it just hadn't had the time to get it fitted.
What power laser do you use for the correx?
Oh cool.
I have a homebuilt 60w laser, run correx at about 10w and 1000mm per minute, extraction is essential.
Cutting area is 620x420mm could go bigger, it was inspired by the Lasersaur project (google it).
Basically a 6k laser for 1.5k worth of parts, worked for 3 years without any major problems
Cheers Rob
iwan_canobi. The Freeman may buy one of these ;)
Quote from: iwan_canobi on July 30, 2018, 02:52:29 PM
(https://s8.postimg.cc/8x159au1t/20180729_124841.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8x159au1t/)
Hey folks, sorry for the lack of updates, been a busy time recently!
A few updates, Matt Ogbourne contacted me months ago about getting a kit so I sent him the first production version last week, and he's flown it already! He's made a few videos about it that are pretty positive -
https://youtu.be/4KtdaYPGB5I (http://youtu.be/4KtdaYPGB5I)
https://youtu.be/vNXJ427OtNk (http://youtu.be/vNXJ427OtNk)
Greg (GMAC FPV) who has been a great help to me throughout the design process and did some beta testing for me has also done a bit of a build series, there's a link in the blog section of the new website -
https://www.ewingsfpv.co.uk/blog/vortigaunt-build-log (https://www.ewingsfpv.co.uk/blog/vortigaunt-build-log)
So things are coming on well, I'll be putting stock live on the website this coming Monday all being well! Exciting times! :D