Hi, new here! Vector on bixler, gain and pids? Help!

[Nozer]

Hi folks!

New here, but not new to fpv :)
Been flying fpv on quads for several years. And a few months ago my friends convinced me to start with planes also...
As for now i have got 6 planes laying around the apartment. Why does it always ends up like this? :)
"Just going to buy one and try..." Yea, right!

Now to the problem.
I have got a bixler, a early version. I assume its 1, or 1.1.
Have installed a Eagletree Vector in it and have made a decent maiden. So atleast it flies.
But compared to the frsky s6r i have usead earlier, the vector not feels half that locked in and "safe" in flight
Running on stock settings for gain and pids.
I am not that experienced in flying so that i without crashing can fly and tweak the plane. So i hope i can get some points in the right direction on how to set this up

I have seen ppl in here that have used this combo with success.
Is there anyone that have any tips or settings to share to get it going?

/Tobbe

[FPVSteve]

Welcome!

I don't have any experience with the Vector but I can tell you that the first problem is uncureable - suck it up, the planes are here to stay, you'll buy more and you'll like it... :laugh:

[SnoozeDoggyDog]

Hi Nozer
Welcome.

I use a vector. I only used the stock settings on setup. On advice I set the level between about 5 and 10 degrees nose up (but I'm flying a mini talon). I didn't interfere with the pids. I do however turn the stability gain down to 26. But to be honest I may turn stab of all together, not quite decided.

Oh and save yourself money .... but a mini talon. Its the only plane you'll need. Wish I had done 2 months ago. It would have saved me about £150 on a somewhat wasted axn and parts.

P

[FPVSteve]

No it wouldn't - you would have trashed your Mini Talon into the deck same as you did the AXN.

IMO the AXN isn't a great beginners plane compared to the Bixler - Bruce Simpson has been flying longer than I've been alive and I feel he has forgotten that flying doesn't come naturally to some people - the Bixler floats better, is slower, is more controllable and has more scope for improvement (for FPV) than an AXN.

[SnoozeDoggyDog]

All I'm saying is the talon is less money and having some form of stability for a beginner is great. Whether you stuff a train or stuff a Bixler .... One is cheaper than the other, same kit inside. In hind sight of I thought I would have been this confident and have some great support behind me. I'd have gone straight for the talon with vector and fpv.

I know it's a sore subject but that's the way I feel. Despite me stuffing my first talon.

[Loopdreams]

It's not a sore subject but you're just advocating the path of most resistance.  Just get a sim, learn to fly in a couple of evenings by failing over and over again and then get a decent trainer and you'll be fine with no need for any electro-stability gubbins.  It's really not all that hard.

[Nozer]

Loopdreams:
I see your point.
Actually i can fly "manual" pretty decent.
I have several other planes, incl 3d foamies for indoors i fly without any problems.
Vector is just for relaxing fpv and safety with RTH.

Problem is that i am not so experienced that i can recover from a situation caused by a badly configured FC.
So i want to minimise the risks of putting wrong gain and pids on it.

[English Turbines]

Loopdreams:
I see your point.
Actually i can fly "manual" pretty decent.
I have several other planes, incl 3d foamies for indoors i fly without any problems.
Vector is just for relaxing fpv and safety with RTH.

Problem is that i am not so experienced that i can recover from a situation caused by a badly configured FC.
So i want to minimise the risks of putting wrong gain and pids on it.

Im guessing you have flown quads for so long now, that you are comparing to how a plane reacts...Planes are slower to react, to roll and pitch than a quad.
  Since you can fly in manual without problems, then you could turn the gains down so Stabilise Mode doesnt feel quite so mushy....It can be offputting at first.
  Sounds like you just need to get used to it....:)

    :vulture:

[BlueFlyer]

I don't understand what you mean about it doesn't feel "safe"

What is the plane doing or not doing that is either unexpected or unwanted?

Are you actually flying the Vector in any of the stabilised modes?

What mode is the vector in when you think it's flying dangerously?

You're talking about a badly configured FC... why do you think your FC is badly configured?

I've never changed the PIDs in vector. I've never felt the need to.

[BlueFlyer]

It's not a sore subject but you're just advocating the path of most resistance.  Just get a sim, learn to fly in a couple of evenings by failing over and over again and then get a decent trainer and you'll be fine with no need for any electro-stability gubbins.  It's really not all that hard.

One of the most successful FPVers on this forum went "All-in" for his first FPV build, 1.2 video, dragonlink UHF for control, Tornado Autopilot, MFD AAT Tracker, and a Skywalker.

He doesn't regret for one moment, ignoring the same old same old "advice" of buying a trainer, learning to fly los, then slowly and gradually advancing up to the full blown system.

Just like in the multirotor world, there are people who want the quick fix of the full fixed wing FPV experience that they see from people who've been in the game for years. Some take to it like a duck to water, others don't.

[Nozer]

Blueflyer:

Hard to describe, but i'll try.
All flights done in 2D mode.


In other planes and quads the stabilisation have been more or less rock solid pretty much by default. Some small osscilations or bobbing of nose/tail perhaps. But not anything critical. And pretty small adjustements needed to find the sweet spot.

With the vector i dont get safe by the way it handles it. And it feels so way off, that i actually am afraid of using it.
A few days ago it actually made my plane crash. No damages lucky enough.
Just cruising forward at ~40-50km/h and all of a sudden it banks hard to the left and starts this "spiral of death" into the ground.

Several other times it have rolled/pitched by itself, and i have felt "what the f*ck" and then all is good again.
Never any hard flying. Just relaxed and safe to get familiar with the system.

Either something is wrong with the vector. Or the default settings just dont work on my hardware. Manual flight is no problem.
That is why i wonder if anyone else have experience from using it on a bixler, and how it behaved.

I have thought about the weather. And if that could have anything to do with it. Actually i am starting to belive more and more that it is the weather.

We have winter here atm. My servos seems to dislike the cold and gets harder to turn.
In manual it's not that big of a deal because it is pretty small corrections when flying.
But in 2D (the mode i use) there is a constant struggle for the servos to keep up with the vector trying to compensate.
Maybe this could be the reason why it "behaves bad"?

[BlueFlyer]

Well that certainly doesn't sound like normal Vector behaviour.

I can understand perhaps the odd oscillation if gains are too high, but a straight up hard bank to the left is not something the vector is even programmed to do unless RTH has been activated.

Could it be the case that the failsafe has initiated on your RC link, causing the vector to temporarily RTH and therefore turn the plane without your input?

Do you have any DVR footage of the plane acting in this way? It would be very useful.

What RC system are you using? 2.4? spektrum, FrSky? UHF?

What servos do you have in the plane? was the bixler a PNF? i.e. did it come with it's own electronics/servos/esc/motor?


I would say something is definitely wrong here, so lets see if we can help you find what that is :)

[Nozer]

Using a taranis and a d4r receiver.
The plane is built all by myself. Got it empty without electronics.
Raised motormount with a 1100kv motor swinging a 9x6 prop.
All rudder have hinges.
Servos are some midlerange half decent models i bought from my local dealer.
Not the best, but not the worst.
They are In the 12-15$/each range.

Have been thinking about failsafe myself actually.
And i have got some rssi warnings from the radio. But never saw RTH come up on the osd.
But it is possible that i have missed it...no dvr. Will activate it next time just for analysing if anything goes wrong.
But then the question is why it tries to selfdestruct when engaging RTH if that is the case?

[BlueFlyer]

lol, self destruct.

In the vector GUI, there's a page where you set the RTH altitude. When RTH is engaged, it will try to get to that altitude and point to the home position as quickly as possible. This might be why it tries to bank hard to one side or drop out of the sky. It's trying to get to the altitude that's been set in it's memory.

One other thing to check is that the control surfaces are reacting to stability mode in the right way and that they're not reversed.

On the ground, in the garage/shed/workshop or wherever you do your building/fiddling/testing... put the plane in 2D mode and physically roll the plane left and right. When the left wing drops towards the ground, the left aileron should also move towards the ground. When the left wing rises to the sky, the left aileron should also rise towards the sky. If this is not happening you need to reverse your channel direction in your taranis and re-run the TX wizard.

When you point the nose to the ground, the elevator should move up to the sky and when you point the nose to the sky, the elevator should move towards the ground. Again, if this is the wrong way around you need to reverse the channel in the taranis and re-run the tx wizard.

It might be worth doing a range test with the D4R and the Taranis to see how much range you're getting before a failsafe... the failsafe might be engaging and disengaging so fast that the OSD doesn't have enough time to display it on screen before it's back to normal.

so...

1. Check the control surfaces are moving correctly in 2D mode
2. Do a range test with your D4R/Taranis
3. Check what the RTH settings are in the vector GUI and change them to suit your requirements.

Let us know what the results are of the above :)

[Billy_boy_2010]

Hi Nozer
Welcome.

I use a vector. I only used the stock settings on setup. On advice I set the level between about 5 and 10 degrees nose up (but I'm flying a mini talon). I didn't interfere with the pids. I do however turn the stability gain down to 26. But to be honest I may turn stab of all together, not quite decided.

Oh and save yourself money .... but a mini talon. Its the only plane you'll need. Wish I had done 2 months ago. It would have saved me about £150 on a somewhat wasted axn and parts.

P

Lol- didn't you crash your axn at least a handful of times? And now can only fly it with an autopilot and fpv? The talon is harder to fly and less robust.

Did your axn parts really cost you £150? ;)