This isn't a plane I'm rushing, and have quite a bit to buy to go inside yet... also I'm not sure what I'm putting in or colour schemes or any of that jazz. Also, I'm a bit thick, so this may be full of questions... please answer these so I don't get stuck :)
It arrived yesterday, and I immediately dry fitted it together in an excited way
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7283/27967540936_d20c7d6a84_c.jpg)[/url]
I was just fitting the wooden bits together today to have a look. Canopy wise, I might go with that, or I might print something slightly more bespoke... but that would entail know what I was going to put there !
The mid section is odd (and as Blueflyer mentioned to me yesterday) why doesn't it have a bottom part to act as a shelf ? Weird.
The stuff I'm not clear on are the things I'm holding in my hand... can anyone tell me what these are for ?
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7452/27939186391_6b256734b8_c.jpg)
So far, the stuff I have decided on are (I say decided, I'm easily swayed if anyone has a strong opinion) -
Lipo - 4s 5200 Multistar (as I already have some of these)
Motor - NTM Prop drive 28-36 1400kv
Prop - 8x6
RX - FrSky lr9
VTX - Immersion 5.8 600mw
Flight camera - pz0420m or a Runcam swift (as I have both on hand)
Recording camera Mobius
ESC - Plush 40A
BEC
Less decided - AP. I quite wanted to try out an Vector, but they are pretty big money, whilst the Cyclops Tornado significantly cheaper and seems reasonably capable
Pan - to pan or not to pan. Would quite like a view over the wings, but it would mean sticking the camera up more that could hurt the profile
Oh, another question to those that have already built these. I notice the foam around the wing spar is securely glued in. I was thinking this would be a place to run the servo cable down. Did everyone just make a cut to run their cables along ?
More to follow once I order some bits for it and start building :)
Here comes another one !
There is going to be a swarm of them soon :)
Those round bits look like the wing spar goes through them? So maybe reinforcements for the wings?
Quote from: Steve W on July 01, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
Those round bits look like the wing spar goes through them? So maybe reinforcements for the wings?
Yeah - they are definitely for the 2 spars, but quite what they should then fix into (via the slotted part)... well, I can't work that bit out
I'm sat here trying to figure that out myself, lol
Must be the back of the main plywood cage to match the holes on there.
Quote from: Steve W on July 01, 2016, 03:16:13 PM
Must be the back of the main plywood cage to match the holes on there.
My first thoughts exactly. However, they don't line up - must go somewhere else
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7469/27737324080_bd8bc90f08_c.jpg)
You have the cross pieces upside down..... turn them around and they will fit......
Goes together like this
(https://s32.postimg.org/on2286a8x/13555891_10153739007437776_1915712196_o.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/on2286a8x/)
^^^^^ Wot they sed :laugh:
I was looking for a place to glue them to the foam for quite a while before I worked it out! :D
The servo wire channel is there mate, I just deepened it with a sharp blade and didn't go down too far.
Thanks guys - I'd assumed that the weird offset cut in the cross beams was to line up against the interior of the fuse. Didn't even think of the alternative :D
Very small update - I made myself a base for the cage with a little 3d print. I'd upload it to thingiverse, but I'm assuming most people can draw a rectangle.
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7460/27961744991_cff194b8c1_c.jpg)
if you like 3D printing... take a look at this guy's files list
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1646102/#files (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1646102/#files)
Some other commitments meant my Talon has been sitting in the corner doing nothing for a while, but tonight I went back and sorted out a canopy. I based it on jt's excellent design on thingiverse here http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1624284 (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1624284) But I decided I wanted things with a lower profile, so decided I'd dig out some nose foam and get the pan servo lower. I sorted myself out a platform to hold the Q6 and my flight cam
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8403/29862689685_bbe254e10b_c.jpg)
The raised circular bit gets the round servo horn stuck into it and then I can remove it from the servo using the screw as per normal (which is why there's a small hole through it)
When all put together, it looks like this -
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5122/29827532076_2fb8456570_c.jpg)
Thank goodness I've used black on top of more black, I'd hate anyone to actually be able to see it :)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5614/29569406680_a4257f9a08_c.jpg)
All seems to work quite nicely. I'm aiming to do a bit every night now, as I feel I have a wide open space for a plane that will stay up for a while (but not be pathetically weak in the wind... I'm looking at you Bixler 2!)
Looking good Mr K....Just read your earlier post about the 4S 5200 Lipo....Last nite I ordered two of them from HK...For my X6....and the MT.
£16 each....seems like a bit of a steal.....Debating if to get another Storm AP....I cant be arsed with the Naze etc...it just seems like too much hassle.....In fact the old Arduplane 2.6 looks a lot simpler to me, and a more refined complete package.. even if it is a bit big, it would still go in the MT....
Did you go with the Vector then...?
:vulture:
Nice, I'm looking at doing something similar for a pan setup with mine, although I don't have a fancy-pants 3D printer so it'll just be cobbled together from whatever bits I have lying around.
Yep, the vector is sitting on the box ready to go in.... wait a sec. See, there it is in the "Talon bits corner"
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8449/29870273415_6fa90bd193_c.jpg)
The Naze would just give you basic stab mode wouldn't it, no AP functions as yet ? Certainly the Storm is an easier all in one package, or though I would probably get the Tornado over the Storm these days (especially for a Talon, as the Storm doesn't do v-tail). I think Ardu is pretty good, but the OSD configuration is fairly hateful IMO
Quote from: English Turbines on September 23, 2016, 09:53:09 AM
Looking good Mr K....Just read your earlier post about the 4S 5200 Lipo....Last nite I ordered two of them from HK...For my X6....and the MT.
£16 each....seems like a bit of a steal.....Debating if to get another Storm AP....I cant be arsed with the Naze etc...it just seems like too much hassle.....In fact the old Arduplane 2.6 looks a lot simpler to me, and a more refined complete package.. even if it is a bit big, it would still go in the MT....
Did you go with the Vector then...?
:vulture:
Quote from: Loopdreams on September 23, 2016, 09:55:37 AM
Nice, I'm looking at doing something similar for a pan setup with mine, although I don't have a fancy-pants 3D printer so it'll just be cobbled together from whatever bits I have lying around.
Well, easy replication using the enclosed canopy and a piece of wood (or something) stuck to the servo. Half the reason I 3d print, is that I can't cut a piece of wood in a straight line. I'm just solving lack of skill with tech :)
Point taken about the Tornado, although, Im not a lover of Tailerons tbh...
The MT has a very short Tail moment, so Im not sure how useful Tailerons will be in the turns compared to bank and yank..?
I thought the Minim OSD was rather good myself, after all you can have any many features anywhere as much or as little as you like cant you..?
I seem to recall you doing a Clip about it once, the Minim I mean..I think the APM is very capable after watching Bill Hallys channel...?
:vulture:
I love the MicroMinim OSD, but the regular one is just weird. You seem to need to give it both a 5v and 12v power supply if you want to upload a font to it, and then I've had terrible problem (in the copter version) just to get the sodding ardu talking to it... which has made me hate it. Don't forget the minim itself is a pure osd, it gets information from the ardu and display it.... if that info isn't forthcoming it sits there and does nothing. Yep - you can configure the OSD layout(s) via a GUI, so that's all good... in fact you can fill the screen like some sort of early 90's spreadsheet if you so desire !
Ardu on plane has got at least quite a different codebase, so they at least will probably talk to each other without an issue. I do maintain it's for someone who's into fiddling around with the settings more than the all in one simple package of the storm/tornado/vector etc
Quote from: English Turbines on September 23, 2016, 10:15:27 AM
Point taken about the Tornado, although, Im not a lover of Tailerons tbh...
The MT has a very short Tail moment, so Im not sure how useful Tailerons will be in the turns compared to bank and yank..?
I thought the Minim OSD was rather good myself, after all you can have any many features anywhere as much or as little as you like cant you..?
I seem to recall you doing a Clip about it once, the Minim I mean..I think the APM is very capable after watching Bill Hallys channel...?
:vulture:
Quote from: English Turbines on September 23, 2016, 10:15:27 AM
Point taken about the Tornado, although, Im not a lover of Tailerons tbh...
The MT has a very short Tail moment, so Im not sure how useful Tailerons will be in the turns compared to bank and yank..?
I thought the Minim OSD was rather good myself, after all you can have any many features anywhere as much or as little as you like cant you..?
I seem to recall you doing a Clip about it once, the Minim I mean..I think the APM is very capable after watching Bill Hallys channel...?
:vulture:
To be pedantic it's not tailerons, it's just a v-tail setup or ruddervators to give it the portmanteau term. Tailerons are what you sometimes get on jets with all-flying tailplane so the tailplane halves move together for pitch and opposite to each other for roll.
But I agree that you could just y-lead the two servos at the back so they only function as an elevator and dispense with yaw control altogether.
Quote from: Loopdreams on September 23, 2016, 10:24:24 AM
To be pedantic it's not tailerons, it's just a v-tail setup or ruddervators to give it the portmanteau term. Tailerons are what you sometimes get on jets with all-flying tailplane so the tailplane halves move together for pitch and opposite to each other for roll.
But I agree that you could just y-lead the two servos at the back so they only function as an elevator and dispense with yaw control altogether.
Agreed, in fact all flying tail surfaces "Tailerons" are more effective than "Ruddervators"....They both do exactly the same thing though.....If I fly mine with the Storm I will have to Y lead the two elevator servos anyway...
So, if you just bang in full left "Rudder" on your Mini Talon...what happens...?...without touching the Ailerons of course..?
:vulture:
Quote from: CurryKitten on September 23, 2016, 10:22:42 AM
I love the MicroMinim OSD, but the regular one is just weird. You seem to need to give it both a 5v and 12v power supply if you want to upload a font to it, and then I've had terrible problem (in the copter version) just to get the sodding ardu talking to it... which has made me hate it. Don't forget the minim itself is a pure osd, it gets information from the ardu and display it.... if that info isn't forthcoming it sits there and does nothing. Yep - you can configure the OSD layout(s) via a GUI, so that's all good... in fact you can fill the screen like some sort of early 90's spreadsheet if you so desire !
Ardu on plane has got at least quite a different codebase, so they at least will probably talk to each other without an issue. I do maintain it's for someone who's into fiddling around with the settings more than the all in one simple package of the storm/tornado/vector etc
Glad you told me about that Minim quirk...although Im easily led by Bill Hallys sucess by the APM 2.6, Im also aware that hes forgotten more about it than Im ever going to know for sure...lol..
Do you have a wiring diagram for the Microminim, showing the Camera and vtx connections etc..?
:vulture:
Quote from: English Turbines on September 23, 2016, 10:33:09 AM
Agreed, in fact all flying tail surfaces "Tailerons" are more effective than "Ruddervators"....They both do exactly the same thing though.....If I fly mine with the Storm I will have to Y lead the two elevator servos anyway...
So, if you just bang in full left "Rudder" on your Mini Talon...what happens...?...without touching the Ailerons of course..?
:vulture:
I've not built the mini-talon yet. But to be honest when I've had v-tail gliders before I've found little practical difference between that setup and the usual tailplane and fin arrangement. Most planes have some yaw-roll coupling regardless of the tail design. Not sure why they would have chosen the v-tail design for the talon, perhaps the short moment might cause some issues with the tailplane being so close to the wing.
Quote from: English Turbines on September 23, 2016, 10:33:09 AM
Agreed, in fact all flying tail surfaces "Tailerons" are more effective than "Ruddervators"....They both do exactly the same thing though.....If I fly mine with the Storm I will have to Y lead the two elevator servos anyway...
So, if you just bang in full left "Rudder" on your Mini Talon...what happens...?...without touching the Ailerons of course..?
:vulture:
I highly recommend keeping the rudder functionality on the Talon - as you know I'm using the T1000FC which doesn't control the rudder, so in stabilisation mode it can take a little while for the plane to come around in high winds using only roll.
Once I stab in a bit of rudder though she turns on a sixpence.
I can also do "flat" turns as well because the aileron gyro counteracts any roll when the rudder is being used by itself.
The V-tail keeps the control surfaces out of the dirt and they work really well, if you want duration then the Multistar 8000mAh 4s 10c are the way to go. Mine has loads of power and pan & tilt but will still fly for an hour at 1700grams flying weight.
I tried to use two different makes of vtail mixers on mine,neither would play nicely with my Storm,lots of jittering.
So I ended up just using elevator by flipping one of the servos,and it seems to fly well enough with just ailerons and elevator.
Quote from: Steve W on September 23, 2016, 11:38:00 AM
I highly recommend keeping the rudder functionality on the Talon - as you know I'm using the T1000FC which doesn't control the rudder, so in stabilisation mode it can take a little while for the plane to come around in high winds using only roll.
Once I stab in a bit of rudder though she turns on a sixpence.
I can also do "flat" turns as well because the aileron gyro counteracts any roll when the rudder is being used by itself.
Hi Steve.....That's good to hear Steve, flat turns with the aileron giro keeping things level...cool...How did you feed your Rudder and Elevator controls through the T1000 then?....As far as Im aware, the T1000 doesnt work the Rudder at all, even though it appears to have a giro pot...?
:vulture:
It's connected through the T1000FC but it's always just in "pass through" mode.
The only time the T1000FC uses the rudder gyro is in the "3d cheat" mode for 3d pilots, a mode I never use.
So I retain full manual control over the rudder.
The T1000FC does control the rudder servo when it is in V-Tail configuration, but using the elevator gyro :laugh: Similarly, the rudder stick controls the elevator servo as well :)
Quote from: Steve W on September 23, 2016, 02:38:06 PM
It's connected through the T1000FC but it's always just in "pass through" mode.
The only time the T1000FC uses the rudder gyro is in the "3d cheat" mode for 3d pilots, a mode I never use.
So I retain full manual control over the rudder.
The T1000FC does control the rudder servo when it is in V-Tail configuration, but using the elevator gyro :laugh: Similarly, the rudder stick controls the elevator servo as well :)
Ah, yes of course...The T1000 has a V Tail Mode....was having a Senior moment....I think Ill have a lie down now...... :sick:
:vulture:
I spent most of today reorganising my man-cave and chucking stuff out/hiding other stuff in the loft etc in order to give myself more room to build. SO then I got started on servos.
I'm using Tower Pro MG90s, which I've used before and been happy with. They didn't quite fit in the original slots though, so each existing recess had to be cut into a little more to allow them. I'm also using these much nicer horns that I saw Coyote recommend. They have two pieces and so sandwich the control surfaces - much better than the thin little glue in from one side things that came in the bag.
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8559/29917140746_005b04bf35_c.jpg)
So I got all the servos centred, installed and horns/pushrods in place
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8376/29324122254_8f4831bfd5_c.jpg)
I then stuck the servos in place, and also taped over for good measure... also running the tape down the servo wire. The servo wire on the wing isn't long enough to reach the end, so 2 servo extensions went in. I have a feeling I'll probably need some on the tail and the pan as well... and I've only got 2 left, so will get some more on order.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5724/29837461452_711679758d_c.jpg)
I then turned my attention to my canopy, and cut a hole in the fuse so my pan servo could poke down.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5669/29917141646_282af052d1_c.jpg)
Popped my printed canopy in for a test fit, and it all looks good.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8560/29324124124_5bb6218227_c.jpg)
At which point I looked at my watch and really wondered how I'd been working on it for so long without doing too much ! No rush though, i'll be taking my sweet time :)
Looks good Wayne, that Firefly looks like it will have a lot of sky in shot though...?
You could use the ESC Bec to keep the Firefly topped up maybe....?
:vulture:
Any progress is good progress :) You'll enjoy this one, CK.
Quote from: English Turbines on September 27, 2016, 12:46:34 AM
Looks good Wayne, that Firefly looks like it will have a lot of sky in shot though...?
You could use the ESC Bec to keep the Firefly topped up maybe....?
:vulture:
The Firefly will definitely need power from somewhere. I haven't decided on the angle for the camera as yet - so I'll either make a wedge or reprint the camera holding slab with a slant on it it I need it to look down more. The run cam obviously has it's own tilt.
Regarding the servo linkage system, I drilled the hole slightly bigger in the servo horn so that the linkage connector is free to rotate without being loose. I then used a dab of loctite on the thread and did the nut up hand tight, then loosened it by a 1/4 of a turn. now the wire linkages don't bend when you operate the control surfaces as the linkage connectors are free to rotate.
Quote from: CurryKitten on September 27, 2016, 09:10:00 AM
The Firefly will definitely need power from somewhere. I haven't decided on the angle for the camera as yet - so I'll either make a wedge or reprint the camera holding slab with a slant on it it I need it to look down more. The run cam obviously has it's own tilt.
Hi Wayne, yes in the series of short tests I did, it seems like the Lipo is not very good at all, doesnt last more than about 20 mins...Im a little concerned about the case too because it seems a bit fragile.....Did you manage to get a new case and screen easily enough for your Firefly then...?
:vulture:
After I fully discharged/recharged the battery in the Q6 around 6-8 times it came up to about 40mins record time... which is fine on a mini quad, but less so on a plane so absolutely power is needed. Happily though it's no big fuss with the included cable.
The case on mine survived the very big drop, it was just the OLED that smashed. Gear best have the parts listed now, so I've ordered one, just waiting for it to come into stock and ship to me, and then I can tell you how easy it was to replace (or not)
Thats good to knowabout the Firefly spares......What do you think to your new Vector?...and wheres the best place to obtain one..?
Since I saved by servicing my car myself, Im debating getting one....lol..
Its certainly a neat compact package, I like that about it very much.....If I was to download the GUI, does it let you have an idea of what its all about..?....without actually having one..?..
Link maybe...?
Thanx..... :vulture:
Software and manuals on here:
http://www.eagletreesystems.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=136 (http://www.eagletreesystems.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=136)
I don't think you'd regret buying a Vector, they really take a lot of the pain out of it all.
Yes - I've not flown the Vector yet, but have been very impressed with the level of documentation, and how friendly it is in terms of connections, and configuration.
So you have a nice wiring loom which should prevent you from plugging things in incorrectly (unlike the rows and rows of raw servo pins from the MFD AP) You can power it from a different range of voltages, and it can output 5v/12v to cam/vtx as you wish - so very easy here. You can also configure from your PC, or via the OSD itself... even when flying :)
It's certainly a step up (at least it feels that way) from the Storm based OSD's... forgot where I got mine from, I'll have a check. It's not on the cheap end of things though, it was over £200 with the air speed sensor.
Quote from: English Turbines on September 27, 2016, 02:13:11 PM
Thats good to knowabout the Firefly spares......What do you think to your new Vector?...and wheres the best place to obtain one..?
Since I saved by servicing my car myself, Im debating getting one....lol..
Its certainly a neat compact package, I like that about it very much.....If I was to download the GUI, does it let you have an idea of what its all about..?....without actually having one..?..
Link maybe...?
Thanx..... :vulture:
Vectors are great, I've got 2 now. Dead easy to set up, work great and when you combine it with the cheap as Eagle Eyes GS they really come into their own.
Check out rc-log.co.uk, they do xt60 version for £175ish or Deans version for a bargain £155.
Cheers jt, that's where I got mine, but I couldn't remember it off the top of my head
Mine are both deans ones, seemed sensible to swap a couple of battery leads and save £20 on each lol.
More progress tonight, although as per usual, not massive amounts. I glued the wheel into one half of the fuse
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8332/29859388742_c399035a2d_c.jpg)
..and then glued the cage/tray in place... I post this purposely to drive Coyote's OCD crazy as I'm mixing printed PLA with wood, and that's a no-no :)
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5083/29859387762_9263b18cee_c.jpg)
I seem to have spent the majority of my evening messing around with the motor mount. I have a SunnySky 2216-8 1250kv and the supplied motor mount isn't a fit. If I line up one of the holes, you can see how far the others are out
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8364/29345727694_8812cf6d14_c.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5229/29345728304_09006406ce_c.jpg)
So I found a nice looking one on thingiverse here (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1727842 (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1727842)) and printed that out
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5031/29859383702_126694a362_c.jpg)
This was quite nice in that it had a space to put an m3 nut in which you could screw straight into
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5005/29859384732_470c437e77_c.jpg)
So motor fitting in well (note extra nuts as spacers)
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5466/29859385482_e0066a61cc_c.jpg)
Which fits in quite nicely
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8127/29973265715_b2f3d14aaa_c.jpg)
Few more small bits done, which I'll update in the morning as I promised to be in bed by 11.30pm - as I'm being told late nights is not good for my health.
Ok, where was I. Oh yes, some more printing. First up is the tail skid - which I keep hearing that people are breaking there's left right and centre. It does feel a touch on the flimsy side, so I printed this one http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1479065 (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1479065) which looks the same, but is thicker and I've 100% infilled it, so hopefully will skid along rather than just break.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8738/29859391142_5ae16224b9_c.jpg)
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5696/29859392242_6ee68004a1_c.jpg)
I was wondering what everyone did about the fuse cover. Nobody seems to enjoy the idea of putting those long screws in each time. I went and got myself a little hatch lock thingy, and printed out some bits that I might use http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1665248 (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1665248) These are from Vortecks, so does that mean he designed them, or just "borrowed" them from elsewhere :)
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8480/29859390382_759b6694ac_c.jpg)
The idea with these - and what I was generally going for anyway (just without the printed bits) is that you have carbon fibre rods/wooden dowels/whatever in one end of the cover, and the hatch lock on the other. Make some holes to stick the dowels into and the hatch lock obviously goes into a hole as well and you are good. Looking at the cover it has a very obvious weak-point that I notice some people have reinforced, although I was quite tempted to put a deliberate break in there and tape it as a moveable surface.... if that makes sense. Opinions ?
Also, while I have your opinion-giving head on, what's the verdict on these two bec's I found in my parts drawer. Needs to run 5 servos - so I would say the bigger one, but didn't know if anyone had any experience with noise issues from it ?
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5655/29973266335_e3ccd3fc2a_c.jpg)
Maybe it's because I don't have a 3D printer but I do think people over engineer things because of them :D For the motor mount.. it's plywood... So I just drilled 4 new holes in it and used self tapping screws to mount the motor. I've had my share of crashes but never had an issue with the mount.
With the tail skid in my experience it's not the skid itself that breaks but the foam holding it in. If the plane twists on landing the sideways force as his the skid can rip the prefer of ply straight out the foam.
For the hatch.. I made a hinge at the front with fibre tape which is still going strong. Another piece at the other end to form a tab for me to open, velcro to hold it down if necessary but mine is a tight fit do not needed.
Lastly you might want to lose the front wheel, mine got ripped out on the third or fourth landing taking pieces of foam with it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
looks good Ck, I use the same turnigy SBEC and have had no issues..
Trust me, I could over-engineer this a whole lot more, but then I'd never finish :) Point certainly taken, although printing out bits for something still feels space-age, and gives me immense satisfaction - so I accept that it's not *really* needed, but it's very much wanted.
Yep, the part where the skid glues in isn't very substantial, so I can see that not lasting... however, for some reason I feel a compulsion to finish it with skid and wheel in place, so I can see it looking as it was (broadly) intended before it obviously gets smashed up a bit and we start customising things around.
Did you hinge your hatch at the weakpooint (where it goes onto the smaller cf rod) ? I wasn't totally sure from your description - got a pic ?
That's what I'm planning to do and then just put magnets at the other end.
I'm just jealous because I don't have one so have to come up with some other way of bodging it. For instance I've seen people print fancy skids that cover the foam and ply on the tail. I had to make do with using some polymorph and mild it by hand :D
Don't have any pics to hand but essentially what you do is.. Put the hatch on. Tape across the join of the front of the hatch to the fuse. Then open it up and put some tape on the underside as well.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Quote from: Loopdreams on September 28, 2016, 10:00:45 AM
That's what I'm planning to do and then just put magnets at the other end.
Glad I'm not the only one :D
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
When I build another I won't fit either the skid or the nose wheel, the tail I will just tape and the nose has some plastic car bumper repair strips taped and its much better for rough field landings.
As far as over engineering goes, if it make ya smile and you enjoy it, fill ya boots, its our hobby and supposed to be fun :P
I didn't even bother with a skid at all on the back end of mine. Just a bit of tape to protect the foam, and left it out completely. It's not broken yet, although I do only really land on grass.
Nice build though, makes me want to do another and improve the things I don't like about mine (mainly the rats nest of wiring! and the annoying ply cradle in the middle of the fuselage).
Andy
No tail skid here either,just some split silicon tubing,and no wheel either .I used a 5 litre detergent bottle cut and heat shaped to protect the nose and front skid.
Here`s one I made earlier :laugh:
(https://s13.postimg.org/wc4oqstnn/IMAG3574.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wc4oqstnn/)
CK I use one of those smaller 5A BECs on my Skywalker which basically powers everything including lights. I've not had any issues on 3s or 4s.
I turned the weak point of the cover into a hinge by putting some tape on the underside, then securing the rear to the plane with some cocktail sticks into the foam. Then I just use an elastic band on the front. I should probably have done the reverse and secured the front but .. meh, it works.
On another note, how hard are people landing in order to smash the wooden bit at the REAR of the plane? I've had some enthusiastic arrivals with my mini talon (including completely ripping the tail off by flying it under my car!!) but the wooden piece is still holding strong with hotglue.
Quote from: Steve W on September 28, 2016, 01:39:40 PM
On another note, how hard are people landing in order to smash the wooden bit at the REAR of the plane? I've had some enthusiastic arrivals with my mini talon (including completely ripping the tail off by flying it under my car!!) but the wooden piece is still holding strong with hotglue.
I've found if the nose touches down first the tail can tend to come around then you get a sideways force hitting the skid
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I've found hitting the massive tufts of grass and bushes, instead of landing on the flat bits helps me avoid damaging the tail skid.
Not so good for the nose, however....
Andy
You don't have to land hard or fast to break it, the airframe just goes sideward and snaps it off. I think it's too tall and would be far better by halving the skid height. IMo
I wonder if it partially so big to help protect larger props on landing, and also a bit to provide a bit more side area at the back end to aid yaw stability...
Small update tonight, mainly because even doing small tasks seems to take me ages !
I threadlocked the screws holding the motor in place, and glued in the half of my printed rear skid. I put the ESC in place to check out how much battery wire I had, and promptly ordered some 14AWG silicon wire as they'll need to be a bit longer to reach the lipo.
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7667/29365509674_ff2f7aa11f_c.jpg)
I also thought that if the ESC went, it would be really awkward to remove and replace. So thought I could extend the motor wires easily so that I could easily pull the ESC forward into the hatch area if needed. Just waiting for someone to shout about why extending motor wires is bad ?
Other than that I did a few bits to the hatch. I fitted the hatch lock and installed the 3d printed bit at the front, with the other piece needing to wait until the fuse halves are glued together.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8095/29365510294_4330bbdf77_c.jpg)
The front part is slightly less interesting, as I still need to slide in some carbon rods or some sort of skewer that will go into a hole in the front of the fuse. I also discovered I didn't have any little cocktail sticks for reinforcing these.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8628/29365511044_8f1c5934bf_c.jpg)
I also still need to reinforce the weak part of the hatch with something.
Aside from the 14 AWG wire, I also have a bunch of servo extensions on their way, and a new tube of UHU Por in readiness
I believe lengthening the motor wires is unwise because, unless they are exactly the same length, you can mess with the esc timing.
How close to identical length they have to be, and whether its only very important with a high kv motor, I have no idea.
Pretty sure that's not super critical or anything. It's lengthening the battery wires that causes more issues.
I wont be fitting that rear dagger plate to mine....Its a plane, not a plough.
A liability is what it sounds like....ok if the plane lands nice and straight, a fuz snapper if the plane gets sideways on....I have landed my Depron Drone loads of times without an ESC lock no problems...even with those weak slo fli props not broke one yet.
:vulture:
I can vouch that it is possible to replace the ESC without lengthening the wires. On a couple of my failed launches the nose dive has been severe enough to disconnect the motor from the ESC. More than once I've been sat at the field removing the motor and dangling ESC wires down through the hole to grab with some pliers before reconnecting them.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Well, I must say I'd prefer not to lengthen the motor wires, so I could get the motor out of the mount by unscrewing, pulling and then separating the bullets, but I'd just need to be careful that those m3 nuts didn't fall out of the other side. I'll get a little bit of glue on them just to make sure they stay captive in their holes.
Quote from: CurryKitten on September 29, 2016, 09:29:51 AM
Well, I must say I'd prefer not to lengthen the motor wires, so I could get the motor out of the mount by unscrewing, pulling and then separating the bullets, but I'd just need to be careful that those m3 nuts didn't fall out of the other side. I'll get a little bit of glue on them just to make sure they stay captive in their holes.
Hi Wayne, why dont you do what I did on my SW.....glue the 3 ESC outlet sockets flush with the fuz exterior...run the motor wires external and that way you can change your motor easily.
You will need a tapped motor mount though, no locknuts etc...makes it really easy though.
:vulture:
Quote from: English Turbines on September 29, 2016, 09:11:46 AM
I wont be fitting that rear dagger plate to mine....Its a plane, not a plough.
A liability is what it sounds like....ok if the plane lands nice and straight, a fuz snapper if the plane gets sideways on....I have landed my Depron Drone loads of times without an ESC lock no problems...even with those weak slo fli props not broke one yet.
:vulture:
It may have a significant effect on yaw stability.
That's why I'm keeping it, although given what's happened to some others I might extend it upwards a bit further into the fus.
I'm really wanting to get my 2 halves together, but I need that 14AWG wire to arrive so my ESC will reach the current sensor, so I'm a bit stuck there.
Instead I decided to layout some of the other wiring and try and decide how it will go. If you thought it was quite neat up to this point, my wiring is always a right mess... but I shall attempt to be as tidy as possible. First off I popped the Vector in place to see what sort of space I was playing with.
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8559/29404092333_cca2693283_c.jpg)
I've done all the setup via the sticks, but I plugged it into the computer today just in case the app gave me more. It did in the form of some firmware updates, and let me layout 6 screens. Which seemed brilliant, until you find out you have an option to turn the OSD display on/off or cycle through them every x seconds. Why isn't there simply an options to cycle through based on a switch. It seems completely bizarre, so unable to contain myself I opened up a ticket with Eagletree and asked them why this wasn't already implemented.
With the Vector in place, it meant I knew how long I'd need the tubing from the pitot to the airspeed sensor. I'd thought about making a mount to put it on the side of the plane, but then decided there was no reason not to put it in the nose (note to self, try not to crash nose-in) so did just that.
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5806/30030835075_bf6366b5e3_c.jpg)
... the back-end of the plane meantime looks like this, just as a way of working out where the rx and GPS sensor will go, and what wires need to go where.
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8231/30030835655_bf904e2dec_c.jpg)
You can cycle through each screen on demand, by cycling the main mode switch once on the Vector ;) So my main mode switch has Off, 2D and RTH on it. I just quickly flip from end to end once, and the OSD screen cycles to the next one. Its on pg 31 of the vector manual. HTH.
Build is looking good too!
Andy
Not on my page 31, but perhaps I had an older version of the manual. Never mind, as I was hoping someone would say something like "yes you can, just do this". I'll set up some other screens and test it out. Cheers :)
Quote from: Andy Sayle on October 01, 2016, 12:03:56 AM
You can cycle through each screen on demand, by cycling the main mode switch once on the Vector ;) So my main mode switch has Off, 2D and RTH on it. I just quickly flip from end to end once, and the OSD screen cycles to the next one. Its on pg 31 of the vector manual. HTH.
Build is looking good too!
Andy
AH, there could be many versions of the manual out there. I'm looking at v2.9 of the manual, this one: http://eagletreesystems.com/Manuals/vector.pdf (http://eagletreesystems.com/Manuals/vector.pdf) For software v12.07+ published in August 2016.
I don't think you have to activate this feature, it just does it. Like cycling the mode switch 2 to 4 times invokes the menu on the OSD, and there are a couple of other things too...
Good luck!
With my bits of wire finally arriving, I set to work on a soldering night last night. I extended the battery cable for my ESC, combined my power/video cables from the IRC 600mw VTX to a single servo cable so I could plug it straight into the Vector, and then I wired the BEC into the ESC wire, and finally took an old GoPro live out cable to use on the FireFly q6, and made that into a servo entension lead so I could power it from the ESC BEC... I think that was it.
Anyway, this morning (I do love not working Mondays) I first plugged the ESC in so I could check the motor direction (wrong, so fixed it) and then laid out all the electronics to test all my surfaces were working, and all the new cables were ok. Everything seemed good
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5247/29983670182_b3d2e5ac99_c.jpg)
Next I started gluing... I really wish I had more than one set of hands here. Although it felt like it went together very well, you'd get little tiny gaps opening up somewhere you wouldn't notice.. I was using my hands and feet at one stage - but taped everything up for a while while the glue went off.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5511/29983670992_e588627dee_c.jpg)
Next I stuck the canopy on, and passed through all the cables - checked everything out again, all good. So put the wings on for a test.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5318/29470168513_066a7794ae_c.jpg)
It's not quite done though, I need to put the reinforcement on the hatch cover, and put some sticks in the front so it will hold into the fuse (not that it's going anywhere, it's very tight). I also realised I forgot to set the failsafe on my rx (schoolboy error) Luckily, it's not deep in there, but will be a bit awkward to do. I also noticed that my pitot tube is slightly crooked, which is annoying, but I don't think is a big issue.
Oh, and I've got to sort out where the CoG is and get some velcro in for my 4s 5200 multistar lipos and check the lipo cables reach the current sensor ok. *Then* I can take it for a maiden and really hope for the best :)
I could do with ordering a new skew as well, I pinched this one off my Bixler, and I like all my stuff just ready to go without swapping bits around.
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7538/29470169263_30edac3a6f_c.jpg)
Nice build Wayne,
Can I just emphasise getting the CoG correct because I find with mine if I have even the slightest hint of tail heaviness, it is VERY easy to tipstall on a launch. If in doubt, go for slightly nose-heavy. Don't want you to ruin the nose!!
Mine balances on the spars with very slight nose weight and it launches very nicely with a decent chuck.
Looking good Mr Kitten....Have you remembered how to fly fast smooth planes..?
Remember, you cant fly higher than 50mtrs....LOL......Hope the Maiden goes well anyway m8......:)
I must start gluing mine together, once I figure out this APM 2.8.....:)
:vulture:
Cheers Steve - yep, bignose gave me a quite specific cog reference after his went wonky - so there's that.
I just need to get krikey on throwing duties for the first try
Quote from: Loopdreams on September 29, 2016, 08:24:45 AM
Pretty sure that's not super critical or anything. It's lengthening the battery wires that causes more issues.
Really? Why would lengthening the battery wires cause issues? Assuming good solder contacts and suitable wire?? Interesting!
It increases the inductance on the input side of the esc. Because it essentially switching on and off (motor coils) very quickly, this can cause an excessive voltage ripple on the supply, and electronics don't like that. The capacitor on the input side of the esc is there to smooth things out again thoughe. The longer the escape wires,the more capacitance needed....
Quote from: Andy Sayle on October 04, 2016, 07:41:48 AM
It increases the inductance on the input side of the esc. Because it essentially switching on and off (motor coils) very quickly, this can cause an excessive voltage ripple on the supply, and electronics don't like that. The capacitor on the input side of the esc is there to smooth things out again thoughe. The longer the escape wires,the more capacitance needed....
"Escape wires"...?.....Serious question though, I assume you mean we should keep the 3 cables from the ESC to the motor nice and short?
:vulture:
Sorry, I was typing that on my phone, fat fingers and autocorrect. It should have said ESC input wires (i.e. from the battery to ESC).
The capacitors fitted to ESCS can usually cope with a small increase in wire length, especially if you are running the ESC well under its spec. As the current goes up, the voltage ripple will also go up, so must the input capacitance to keep control of the ripple to keep the sensitive electronics happy.
The output side of the ESC (i.e. motor to ESC) is not sensitive at all to wire length. The output circuitry is designed to cope with a massive variance in inductance, due to the fact the the coils in various motors can range from silly low inductance, to crazy high inductance, depending on things like the KV rating of the motor. So adding a bit of wire here, makes very little difference. It helps to keep all three motor wires the same length, but I can't see why they wouldn't be!
That is why it is better to extend motor wires, instead of battery wires, in general. Of course if you add extra capacitance to the ESC input, then extending battery wires is okay. Also using a larger ESC and operating well under its limits, will help (as it already has a larger capacitance than required).
Posh ESCs (like the latest Castle Creations ones) actually have the ability to log the input voltage ripple. It allows you to fine tune your ESC tuning, and also check whether your batteries are performing well amongst other things.
Hope that helps!
Andy
Bah - typical, I was going to increase it at the output stage, but thought that was the one that was more likely to cause issues.
On the plus side, it's not a huge extension, and my ESC is over spec'd for the motor - so hopefully no issues, but I'll watch out for any !
Thanx Andy....well on the Mini Talon, I want the motor and ESC close together...I dont like having the ESC anywhere near my RX or FC...
With the Lipo up front, having long feeder cables seems unavoidable......I have a fancy Heli ESC for mine, well overspec.....good job it is sounds like..
:vulture:
As a guide, I'm running a 50A esc (all I had at the time), at a maximum current of around 20 Amps, and I've had zero problems. I have the motor and ESC at the back of my MT, with the esc pushed up against the motor mount. The input wires have been extended to come to the Vector current sensor which is installed by the front spar/wing joiner tube thing.
It's one of them things that it is a case of trying it, and see how you go. 99% of the time, it won't be an issue. The majority of ESC manufacturers will overspec the input Cap anyway. Even if it is an issue, all you would need is a couple beefy electrolytic capacitors soldered in place at the ESC, so a simple fix. I only learnt all this after building a contraption to demonstrate mechanical advantage, and torque. Basically a long pole with a prop on the end, and a spinney office chair. The battery leads were about 3 metres long, and I couldn't figure out why the ESC kept resetting itself.
If you do get an issue (and I really doubt you would in a Mini Talon), you will notice the input capacitor on the ESC getting hot, and the ESC may behave oddly, like randomly rebooting/reinitialising, or behaving erratically.
Cheers
Andy
Because I'm a completionist, I just thought I'd do the last update on the build thread as I had just a few little bits to finish. I made holes into the front of the fuse and then stuck some BBQ skewers into the hatch cover which then line up. (also added a sticker :) )
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5071/30024762142_3e6f80bfaf_c.jpg)
Also on the hatch cover, to stop it from breaking, I glued in 3 bits of carbon fibre rod... which I had laying around from making a control rod for something else. They aren't particularly straight, but I decided I didn't care
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8404/30054894911_b2e62db476_c.jpg)
Then using the precision tool that is a sharpie marker, I sorted out the CG and drew a line where my 5200 4s Multistar lipo had to come up to. I got the CG measurement from bignose, but it lines up just behind the spar, where the servo line channel goes around that corner. I'm slightly nose heavy to start, so hoping for things to be ok.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5040/30054895921_47f9238466_c.jpg)
Finally, and the biggest ball ache of the evening, was to set the failsafe that I'd forgotten to do. My rx was attached far back into the fuse and the antennas were stuck through the top. I managed to move some stuff just enough to be able to get a stick in there and press the failsafe button. But now my rx isn't stuck on as straight as it was, and some servo cables aren't quite as tidy. *sigh*
It's now *properly* ready for a maiden. I just need the right day, weather, and a chucker to help.
](https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5823/30054896771_10bb90e144_c.jpg)
Looks very nice, good luck with the maiden.
Looking good Mr Kitten, very nice.
Have you got the L9R in there..?..Your going to need it methinks.
:vulture:
Looking good Wayne. Good luck with the maiden
Maiden went really well - I'm super-happy with it, to coin an americanism. I launched (or got krikey to throw it) LoS and then went into goggles after it seemed to respond to controls and wasn't falling out of the sky.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5703/29650174313_f9a811da8a_c.jpg)
First time out with the Vector, and it really impressed me. Obviously launched with everything off, and then turned on stabalised and then 2d with hold, checked loiter and RTH worked - was all good. May need to tune a bit, was a bit bumpy sometimes, but it's hard to tell as it was another gusty day for flying.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5715/29983961670_c522718b1e_z.jpg)
The nose was dropping a little on the first flight out, so moved the lipo a touch back for the second which sorted things out. Reading the manual now on the vector and I've reset where straight and level is, just to check it wasn't that - although we went up slightly nose heavy on purpose.
May have had a quick cloud visit on the second lipo
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5465/29649821174_7d95e298e6_c.jpg)
Doesn't want to fly slow does it - loads of power, and feels like I can get a good long flight out of the 5200's I have. Very happy indeed. Putting a video together of a quick walkaround and the maiden, but the flight not overly exciting due to the fact I was playing with switches and checking everything worked.... and I kept losing where we were as it was all quite samey looking on the ground.
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5823/30280660245_bb12488a20_c.jpg)
Good stuff. Hoping to have mine in the air this weekend. Virtually identical build really, vector, firefly but I'm just using 4000mAh lipos as that's what I've got.
Nice one Wayne
Good stuff CK
Nice one - some cracking pictures there as well.
Green with envy >:(
Quote from: SnoozeDoggyDog on October 12, 2016, 07:31:14 PM
Green with envy >:(
Go and find my first attempts of flying my AXN - it'll make you feel better :)
Quote from: Steve W on October 12, 2016, 06:27:41 PM
Nice one - some cracking pictures there as well.
Nice aren't they - shove a GoPro in krikeys hand and he'll get you nice footage... despite my best efforts to miss us on the fly-pasts repeatedly
Looks like you did the Maiden just in time Wayne, weathers turning now....It sounds pretty uneventful...Not like flying a mushy Bixler eh?..:)
Cant wait to see the Firefly footage and the live downlink too...?
:vulture: