BEVRC ChainLink UHF Long Range System

[DPS-Dave]

oh, so... does everyone just use them anyway im assuming that everyone who has said the are buying one?.. what are the conssequences should the police come poking around, im assuming that nobody really gives a toss as its a harmless activity?

no you need a ametur radio licence to use this at all???

yes you would need a licence to use these and it would have to be 459mhz as far as i'm aware for the uk
The conssequences are OFCOM would be knocking on your door so unless you have an ametur radio licence leave we alone and stick to the 35mhz or 2.4 ghz and stay legal
 

[bignose13]

i sent mine back, faulty, bev said i could have a replacement but just asked for a credit instead as i want to stick with 35 mhz, 1K is enough distance for me and my spotter is knocking on a bit, got a nice cam there i'll get instead

[sheep600fx]

Couldnt agree more bignose, im too scared of losing expensive kit to let it out of sight.  35mhz is more than enough for what i want lol

[simondale]

Guys: You may not be aware of the forum rules (which have recently been re-emphasised due to problems with OFCOM and the CAA Enforcement Branch).  We can't allow discussions about equipment which is not legal for use in the UK, or of flying that is not in full compliance with the Air Navigation Order. Whilst its certainly not illegal to talk about such things, it is illegal to use them and it has become clear that a number of anti-FPV busybodies are prepared to take technical discussions from here and use them against our members, our community as a whole and our sport/ hobby.  We are now aware of complaints having been made to both OFCOM and the CAA regarding FPV by these people.

The Chainlink system is entirely illegal for use in the UK.  Whilst 433MHZ is an ISM band (Industrial, Scientific, Medical - IE licence free) overseas, unfortunately it is not in the UK.  And that's a bit irrelevant anyhow because the chainlink is too powerful to be operated in the ISM band.

How would they catch you? "They're" pretty good at it.  And probably when you're least expecting it :-)  Most likely you'd interfere with a local Amateur Radio Repeater (which I believe use 433MHz for their "backhaul" in the UK).  The HAMs would then complain to OFCOM and take it as a challenge to find the source of the interference (they are radio HAMs after all, triangulating a source of interference is all part of the fun, and they have a legal right to use the frequency whereas you do not).  Then they'd report it to OFCOM who would make your day a very bad one.

We already know of one model club reporting one member here to OFCOM due to misconceptions on radio frequencies.  Its just not worth the risk.  35MHz with a Corona RP8D1 receiver will give you up to a maximum of 1.5kms.  That's as far, or beyond, as far as the eye can see and therefore as far as you are allowed to FPV by law.

And regarding flying beyond LOS; that is the limit set out by the Air Navigation Order.  Non-Compliance with that could end very badly as well.  Again we're now aware of a CAA Enforcement Branch investigation into a UK FPVer (not an FPV UK member).

All the best

Simon

[Devonian]

Whole heartedy agree with you Simon.
As a Radio Amateur myself, I can tell you it would take no time at all to find someone with a transmitter, in fact it's regularly a fun activity to 'foxhunt' http://www.radiofoxhunt.co.uk/
You really do not want to upset the Amateur Radio fraternity (as well) as they have a right to the 70cm band (430-440MHz band) and will surely assist in tracking down illegal transmissions that is causing interference to their frequencies and enjoyment of their hobby.

It's a shame that the allocated UHF frequncy allowed for airborne models (459MHz) is not currently supported by any commercial manufacturer - http://www.ukrcc.org/459mhz.html
We should actively try to get this band supported by manufacturers for model control rather than using illegal frequencies.
More useful info - http://www.ukrcc.org/index.html

Nigel.

[ORCA]

Surely, with a 'Ham' ticket I can legaly use the 'CL' (low O/P ***mW, high O/P ***mW, FHSS 433mHz-435mHz)?
The full licence parameters table (Table C page 20 of 23) states that I am allowed to transmit with a status of secondary user at upto 400W in this frequency range.
Or, have I got this wrong???

[Rick]

I don't know anything about electronics/frequencies etc - but it would seem that with such little difference in the frequencies - the general way they work would be the same?  Is that right? 

What I'm trying to say is that surely - to someone who knows and builds these things - the slight frequency difference wouldn't mean reinventing the wheel?  Right or not?

If only we could get this idea off the ground. If it is a genuine usable frequency that would work for longer distance and more importantly perhaps for security of your connection with channel hopping or whatever it's called then it would be fantastic if we were to make it happen somehow.

With recent activities and aggro - maybe we should try somehow to start this going seriously.  I wonder if the open source LRS that is due out any time would easily adapt to 459mhz?

[Coyote]

Its fairly easy to do, but the demand is so low. Even if every member here was happy to buy one, thats only 300 units. Of course this type of system could be used by LOS flyers too. If they were interested then the demand would sky rocket and maybe a manufactorer would do a UK spec model.

[simondale]

I'm very pleased to say that FirstPersonView.co.uk supplies all its EzUHF units on 459MHz and one hundred mW.  

The firmware came through very recently and our versions all ship like this. :-)

Here's the link: http://www.firstpersonview.co.uk/rc-control-systems/ezuhf-459mhz-fhss-robust-digital-rc-system

[simondale]

Surely, with a 'Ham' ticket I can legaly use the 'CL' (low O/P ***mW, high O/P ***mW, FHSS 433mHz-435mHz)?
The full licence parameters table (Table C page 20 of 23) states that I am allowed to transmit with a status of secondary user at upto 400W in this frequency range.
Or, have I got this wrong???

Devonian: Do you know how this works?  Are hams just allowed to transmit using any of the HAM frequencies if they have the ticket or do the band plan "reservations" have to be stuck to?  EG if 433MHz is reserved for repeaters, can a HAM use that frequency for model control?

Its not airborne so it shouldn't be out on that count.

[Devonian]

Simon,
Intersting on the Immersion 459MHz - I didn't realise the firmware had been updated.

As for using my Amateur Radio licence to transmit RC control at 433MHz, it's certainly 'bad practice' to transmit incorrect modes outside of the recognised band plan and would surely get me hunted down by my fellow enthusiasts as it's used by the national repeater network.
I really don't want to go there as the 459MHz allocation is there and available for RC airborne use.
I don't know the rules and regs inside out and why bother when 459MHz is available?

Nigel.

[simondale]

Simon,
Intersting on the Immersion 459MHz - I didn't realise the firmware had been updated.

As for using my Amateur Radio licence to transmit RC control at 433MHz, it's certainly 'bad practice' to transmit incorrect modes outside of the recognised band plan and would surely get me hunted down by my fellow enthusiasts as it's used by the national repeater network.
I really don't want to go there as the 459MHz allocation is there and available for RC airborne use.
I don't know the rules and regs inside out and why bother when 459MHz is available?

Nigel.

The new firmware came through VERY recently.  My begging and pleading with ImmersionRC for the last 2 years or so finally paid off!  

I did also ask the Dragonlink boys and I think I asked Thomas Scherrer but from memory neither of their systems were capable of changing frequency to that degree without major reworks.

The question about 433MHz was for ORCA.  He already has the Chainlink system and he wonders if its legal for use.  I guess the answer is probably; if you really do have an Amateur License , but you'll most likely interfere with your fellow amateur's who will most likely come after you.  

Does a UK amateur have to transmit his callsign regularly?

All the best

Simon

[Devonian]

Does a UK amateur have to transmit his callsign regularly?

All the best

Simon

Yes, at least once per individual contact and if in a continous contact, at least once every 15 minutes (unless the rules have changed since I got my ticket (some 30+ years ago!)).

The Immersion gear is well thought out, but proprietry (and expensive!) with little ability for end user configuration of data.
e.g. - I'd like to be able to read in the GPS data stream to a ground station for my own flavour of tracking.

Nigel.

[ORCA]

Before I start let me explain that this is a discussion/exploration of what can/cannot be legaly used with and without an amateur licence. It in no way endorses the use or tries to convince anyone to use any equipment in an illegal maner. This, I feel, is a legitimate subject for discussion on a public forum. IMHO no one should feel constrained or intimidated in the pursuit of information/knowledge as there is no intent to persuade anyone to commit an illegal act. I fully understand the reluctance that some may feel to be open and frank in the light of recent events. Rather, it is a effort to ensure, as far as is practical, that the legal constraints are known and ones actions can then be guided by facts and not assumptions.
Waffle over.

As far as I can determine(please correct me with facts preferably backed with links):

1/ Only amateur radio licence holders can possibly legally use a LRS opperating on the 70cm band(430mHz to 440mHz).

2/ Searching through RSGB and OFCOM I can find no reference to FHSS(frequency hopping spread spectrum) transmission protocols relating to the use of the 70cm band. As its not specifically disallowed one can assume that it is allowed. To me the band looks to be set up as a channelised narrow band division of the available 10mHz and its organisation has been overtaken by the development of FHSS (although concieved in 1920's, I believe). Unless, there is some overarching regulation/law. I stand to be corrected.

3/ I would not wish anyone to intentionally/unintentionally antagonise other users of the band but doubt that anyone would even be aware of a CL given the FHSS, low power, remote location and intermittant opperation for short periods of time. Additionally, I understand that the CL scans that part of the band that it uses and discounts those areas that it detects are busy/in use(like the Hitek Aurora 9 2.4gHz Tx). Notwithstanding the forgoing, if it is conclusively shown to be illegal for a radio amateur licence holder to use a CL then that is that, wether it causes any interferance or not. But, see 4/ below. I will be seeking more technical info from BevRC on the operation of their system.

4/ As far as I can see large parts of the operating ethics and procedures along with the band plans within the allowed bands do not have the backing of law. In the main they are codes of practice. In fact in the RSGB documents they state that this is the case. Thus, if it is not illegal and causes no problems then why not use a CL even if it does not conform to a band plan code of practice?

5/ Call sign on contact. As a user of CL would not be seeking to contact anyone is it legally required. If positively proved that it is a requirement then it would not be impossible to interpose a divice in the PPM feed to the CL Tx module to insert a call sign - not that anyone would be able to interpret it due to the transmission type and codeing.

Those with factual information please respond as this is a quest for enlightenment not someone trying to stir up trouble. Although, I have acted as devils advocate in some areas.

Reference links:
http://www.rsgb.org/operating/bandplans/
http://www.rsgb.org/spectrumforum/vhfuhf/432mhz.php
http://www.rsgb.org/operating/ethics/

[Chris R]

Shame my Chainlink is also faulty, will contact seller for a refund ASAP.  :(