ARPAS wants more regulations, more prosecutions, licensing of all pilots, etc!

[Jake Bullit]

Apparently the Director of ARPAS is "Ben Kenobi". Someone havin a larf? Aint that a character out of Star Wars ...  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

hmm Apparently there is a Benjamin Kenobi on FPVHUB.. Would that be the same one?

He hangs out here:

http://www.multirotorforums.com/members/benjamin-kenobi.3105/

[skyscraper]

 Just to be clear here so we know what is what.

Heliotrope and hase2 . You have both already paid your money to be certified. (Correct me if I'm wrong?)

regards
Andy

[Heliotrope]

Yes, but perhaps not in the way that you are thinking  :laugh: :laugh:

[Shikra]

Apparently the Director of ARPAS is "Ben Kenobi". Someone havin a larf? Aint that a character out of Star Wars ...  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

That is one awesome name. How cool.....

[skyscraper]

Yes, but perhaps not in the way that you are thinking  :laugh: :laugh:

Then basically it's in your interest to not allow people to fly for fun for nothing, since they havent paid anything. Having paid up ( basically £2000 or so)  you can either fly for fun or to earn money? In other words, having paid the issue doent matter a toss to you. In fact you are probably broadly in favour of making everyone pay to fly.. Am I right?

regards
Andy

[skyscraper]

Apparently the Director of ARPAS is "Ben Kenobi". Someone havin a larf? Aint that a character out of Star Wars ...  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

That is one awesome name. How cool.....

If  you think its cooling waggling a light bulb...Usually means they're a mason  dont it ;)

regards
Andy

[Heliotrope]

Yes, but perhaps not in the way that you are thinking  :laugh: :laugh:

Then basically it's in your interest to not allow people to fly for fun for nothing, since they havent paid anything. Having paid up ( basically £2000 or so)  you can either fly for fun or to earn money? In other words, having paid the issue doent matter a toss to you. In fact you are probably broadly in favour of making everyone pay to fly.. Am I right?

regards
Andy

Bollocks.

[skyscraper]

Yes, but perhaps not in the way that you are thinking  :laugh: :laugh:

Then basically it's in your interest to not allow people to fly for fun for nothing, since they havent paid anything. Having paid up ( basically £2000 or so)  you can either fly for fun or to earn money? In other words, having paid the issue doent matter a toss to you. In fact you are probably broadly in favour of making everyone pay to fly.. Am I right?

regards
Andy

Bollocks.

OK So Can I take that as broadly...

FOR not having to make non-professionals have to PAY for the priviledge of flying a model plane?

regards
Andy

[Heliotrope]

Then basically it's in your interest to not allow people to fly for fun for nothing, since they havent paid anything. Having paid up ( basically £2000 or so)  you can either fly for fun or to earn money? In other words, having paid the issue doent matter a toss to you. In fact you are probably broadly in favour of making everyone pay to fly.. Am I right?

regards
Andy

Bollocks.
[/quote]

OK So Can I take that as broadly...

FOR not having to make non-professionals have to PAY for the priviledge of flying a model plane?

regards
Andy
[/quote]




My position is this.

If I didn't do commercial work I would still fly as a hobbyist. I built my first R/C model in the early 60's – a torpedo boat with an OS Pixie and a Taplin diesel. I even made my own fuel!  I've only rediscovered the joys of model making a few years ago when I had more time. 

I'm a member of the RAES and BMFA.

The hobbyist side is a vital part of the "industry" and needs freedom to experiment (within reason) and to ENJOY.

Regulations are in place and I'm not sure we need more, indeed the 30/50 metre rule is difficult to justify IMO when it comes to multi-rotors. I do however wish the rules were enforced more.

The idea of the law is that it sets in place rules that people then use to make important business decisions. The government has been roundly and rightly criticised for moving the goal posts in respect of all sorts of commercial matters and I would be pretty pissed off if there was effectively a free for all for aerial work. That said, Haze2 makes some very good points and anyone who thinks they can make a living out of one small multirotor with a GoPro is mistaken.

I have it on good authority that there is a drop-out rate of between 40 and 50% when it comes to renewals of PFAW, so the idea that qualified fliers have some sort of license to print money as some people seem to think is ludicrous.

Commercial fliers need protection/representation and that's what I understand ARPAS is (or should be) there to do.

I see nothing wrong with multirotors over a certain size (OK - including Phantom size)with cameras being registered. If it costs £10 that's fine by me. It shouldn't mean any test, I do mean just a registration. If people want to call it a license it's up to them, but it sounds unnecessarily emotive.

[hase2]

Personally I don't think my business needs any protection and certainly no representation from a wannabe body like ARPAS. The fewer regulations you have, the easier it is to operate for me.

I don't give a wet fart if someone does some houseshots for 50 quid. The misconception is, that ppl tend to think that by restricting access to the market you can keep the prices up. That's not the case - if the cheapest way to do a house shoot is say 250-300 quid then most estate agents just wont do aerial shots. And will probably not consider doing them in the future for projects with higher budget.
Same for inspections - if flying up a wind turbine is more expensive than calling an industry climber than they wont call you. Plain and easy. It's really not hard to understand.

From that perspective every new bit of 'protection' endangers my business.

As recreational pilot I can only say that the BMFA and ARPAS can f..k off and leave me alone.
Rules are restrictive enough as they stand.

[FPVSteve]

"I have it on good authority that there is a drop-out rate of between 40 and 50% when it comes to renewals of PFAW, so the idea that qualified fliers have some sort of license to print money as some people seem to think is ludicrous."

Don't you think that might be because the rules as they currently exist are:

a) overbearing and overly restrictive for smaller commercial craft where they may or may not be the entirety of a persons profession?
b) restrictive enough to cause a problem for small businesses regardless of craft size, simply because sometimes the CAA don't give permissions straight away? People have been waiting weeks on end with clients ready to roll, but can't fly because they don't have a PFAW despite passing a BNUC-S and having a certified aircraft.

It is a LOT of money if you're using your multirotor to compliment an existing business - say, for instance, for a niche market. If it were Estate Agents, perhaps I could use a multi-rotor to take pictures of high-value properties. It might only be worth £300/month to me, but that's £300/month in my pocket and a nice little side earner.

However if I have to pay insurance, and get my PFAW on a yearly basis that eats into a lot of the £3,600 I could have earned.

And let's not forget the so called "big boys" wouldn't touch that kind of money - but it'd be a lot to someone like me.

[FPVSteve]

The standing joke being of course, based on my above post ... everything I'd be doing (photographing a house) would be perfectly legal and above board using the EXACT same equipment if I did it for nowt.

Charge £5 though and suddenly you need £700 insurance, PFAW,  BNUC-S ...

It's a total joke.

[Heliotrope]

Personally I don't think my business needs any protection and certainly no representation from a wannabe body like ARPAS. The fewer regulations you have, the easier it is to operate for me.

I don't give a wet fart if someone does some houseshots for 50 quid. The misconception is, that ppl tend to think that by restricting access to the market you can keep the prices up. That's not the case - if the cheapest way to do a house shoot is say 250-300 quid then most estate agents just wont do aerial shots. And will probably not consider doing them in the future for projects with higher budget.
Same for inspections - if flying up a wind turbine is more expensive than calling an industry climber than they wont call you. Plain and easy. It's really not hard to understand.

From that perspective every new bit of 'protection' endangers my business.

As recreational pilot I can only say that the BMFA and ARPAS can f..k off and leave me alone.
Rules are restrictive enough as they stand.

So basically you want a free for all and are happy to be undercut by anybody. Doesn't seem like a sound business plan to me.

[Lola]

ARPAS need to wake up and smell the coffee!




It is right 😀

[hase2]

Personally I don't think my business needs any protection and certainly no representation from a wannabe body like ARPAS. The fewer regulations you have, the easier it is to operate for me.

I don't give a wet fart if someone does some houseshots for 50 quid. The misconception is, that ppl tend to think that by restricting access to the market you can keep the prices up. That's not the case - if the cheapest way to do a house shoot is say 250-300 quid then most estate agents just wont do aerial shots. And will probably not consider doing them in the future for projects with higher budget.
Same for inspections - if flying up a wind turbine is more expensive than calling an industry climber than they wont call you. Plain and easy. It's really not hard to understand.

From that perspective every new bit of 'protection' endangers my business.

As recreational pilot I can only say that the BMFA and ARPAS can f..k off and leave me alone.
Rules are restrictive enough as they stand.

So basically you want a free for all and are happy to be undercut by anybody. Doesn't seem like a sound business plan to me.

If you don't have a USP then that's the harsh reality of capitalism.

Also just because there is more competition out there doesn't mean everyone can or will undercut you. Everyone got operational overheads and therefore there is a limit on how little you can charge.

And it's not the others fault when you jumped into a highly competitive market without assessing the situation before you shell out the money for you certification.

Welcome to reality