Tornado OSD setup issues maintaininng height

[helimadness]

Hi All.
So managed to get out to test my new tornado in my Versa wing. Had the wing flying fairly good with the storm all working OK until I fried it with 4s  :-[

So figure the Tornado should be a simple upgrade. So flashed to version 1.1 and setup with all modes etc appearing to be working ok.

So doing some LOS test to make sure everything is working ok. Put in PA mode and starts losing height. Maybe diving at a rate of 10%, 20m in 200m at a guess. Looks like would have kept going all the way to the ground if I let it. Also tried RTH which appeared to be working but same problem. Also tried sending to some way-points I had in with a box 200x100 as a test. I think the same thing but didnt really let it go for long enough.

First flight was a trim flight. Got it gliding nicely with no power so COG I guess is close. Landed and centered servos then went back up to do the PA test and found it diving.
Landed tried resetting Gyro, Re centered servos, same thing, tried pitch trim in the OSD to +10deg , Tried Auto trim nothing really seemed to make a difference. Checked the correction was correct. Put nose down elevators went up, Tilted to the left Ailerons corrected to the right.   

Had strong sat signal I think max or 1 point of max signal. Haven't got the Air speed setup yet but had that turned to off.

Bit lost as to where to look next. Any advice appreciated.

Cheers

[Coyote]

It sounds like your thrust angle is wrong. So in a glide its holding altitude the best it can, but then when throttle is added the thrust angle pushes the wing down a bit. It doesn't seem to be out much though if its only dropping by that amount.

[helimadness]

But shouldn't PA mode account for changes in altitude? Why didn't it correct when it started getting low.

Also its exactly the same as when I had the Storm in it and i worked fine with that. One thing both the Storm and Tornado have done is a quick nod up and down before settling. The storm then leveled out the Tornado keeps going down. Maybe a dodgy firmware flash?

I would say its out by a lot. Flying LOS couldnt leave it on for more than 200m without it wanted to kiss the ground.

Didn't think about the thrust angle but. Something else in the mix. Fairly sure when I gas it up nothing crazy happens but never really paid that much attention to it. Maybe why Im having trouble launching it also. Hows a good way to check thrust angle. Cruise along and go full throttle and see what happens? I remember my Bixler taking a dive on hard gas up.

Cheers

[Coyote]

Yeah that`s pretty much it, fly it level at a slow cruise, the pile the throttle on, see it it dives by itself as the throttle is added or stays level.

[BlueFlyer]

have you told the Tornado what "level" is yet? you don't seem to have mentioned that... resetting the gyro is not the same thing.

[helimadness]

have you told the Tornado what "level" is yet? you don't seem to have mentioned that... resetting the gyro is not the same thing.

Do you mean by adding trim on the OSD Pitch and roll settings? I have never needed to do that with the storm it just worked.

Maybe with the cruise airspeed turned off it upsets it. Maybe a bit of a bug. Will order some tube now.

Cheers

[_tj_]

tried pitch trim in the OSD to +10deg

Is the pitch and roll angle = 0 in the osd.
Taken from the following thread, saved a bit of typing.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2029391&page=85

"    Fly line of sight and trim your plane
    Observe in level flight
        LOS flying posture of you plane UP or Down wind
        AHI bar position
        Pitch and Roll angle
    Land and set your plane on the ground or CG stand as per observed flying posture
    On screen Pitch and Roll angle and AHI bar should be around observed values and position.

    From the OSD menu
    Re-center Servos
    Set the cruise airspeed OFF
    Dial Pitch and Roll trim values as per your observed level flight
    Reduce pitch gain to 20 or 30 %
    And increase 5 or 10 % per flight until u see oscillation again and then set pitch gain at last stabled flight value
    Set low power RTH value 10.5
    Exit the OSD menus

    Now on main screen your Pitch and roll angle should be zero and AHI bar will centered.
    Fly several flights to find out Pitch gain value.

    Observe Ground speed in Level flight upwind and downwind.
    Set Cruse airspeed as observed with +- 5 or 10km/h.
    Before each flight don't forget to hit reset from the switch setting board."

Could also be a bad flash.
The calibration when you first power the Tornado after flashing may of moved, or been unlevel.
Which would instantly put the gyro's out.

Have you adjusted the elevator / pitch gain, may need raising slightly to stop it dropping.

[helimadness]

Thanks ill run through it again. I should have recorded the flight but was running out of time and takes a bit to set up.

Fairly sure the OSD was sitting flat on my desk when I flashed it. Re calibrating the gyro should fix any errors there yeah ?

Ill have another look tonight at where I ended up. Not going to get a chance to fly for another 2 weeks :-(

Was thinking maybe vibes or something might be messing with it. Maybe I should balance the prop as well.

Cheers

[helimadness]

Ok so had another quick look last night. Sat it on the floor with Leading and trailing edge as parallel to floor as possible and reset the gyro.

So got this. So resetting the gyros obviously doesn't put the pitch and roll back zero. Clicked on the Auto button next to the pitch and roll trims and it got it back to zero. This obviously has to be done after the gyro cal. Or entered manually. Re reading the manual I think I had it back to front. If the number is reading -5 when level you put a trim of -5 in to correct it. My thinking is -5 + -5 = -10. Looks like it is not the case.

Not sure will get the chance to fly again for a week or so. Will have to wait till then :-(

Cheers

[_tj_]

It's the back to front math :)

But whichever way the P+R angle must = 0.

And the flash sometimes does play a part in it.

I have heard people are using an older firmware (Can't remember if it's the AHRS) with the latest upgrade from something like 1.06
But the latest v1.1 was supposed to fix it after they released v1.01

I also noticed that v1.01 was posted as v1.1 just to confuse things even more.

This is the correct v1.1
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=7639469&d=1425612303

[helimadness]

It's the back to front math :)

But whichever way the P+R angle must = 0.

And the flash sometimes does play a part in it.

I have heard people are using an older firmware (Can't remember if it's the AHRS) with the latest upgrade from something like 1.06
But the latest v1.1 was supposed to fix it after they released v1.01

I also noticed that v1.01 was posted as v1.1 just to confuse things even more.

This is the correct v1.1
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=7639469&d=1425612303

So in PA mode to maintain height is it just the Gyro's doing there job, nothing to do with GPS altitude? So maybe the Tornado is only using info based on what the AHI is displaying?

Ill have another play. Maybe If I stand on my head might make sense :-)

I also downloaded Version 1.1 from the RCgroups forum. Assume it is the right one. Someone posted it.

Cheers

[_tj_]

It's the back to front math :)

But whichever way the P+R angle must = 0.

And the flash sometimes does play a part in it.

I have heard people are using an older firmware (Can't remember if it's the AHRS) with the latest upgrade from something like 1.06
But the latest v1.1 was supposed to fix it after they released v1.01

I also noticed that v1.01 was posted as v1.1 just to confuse things even more.

This is the correct v1.1
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=7639469&d=1425612303

So in PA mode to maintain height is it just the Gyro's doing there job, nothing to do with GPS altitude? So maybe the Tornado is only using info based on what the AHI is displaying?

Ill have another play. Maybe If I stand on my head might make sense :-)

Cheers

I find with trimming the plane.
If you need a lot of trim to make it fly straight and level.

Then setting servo centre isn't as acurate as mechanically setting it.

See where the trims have left the control surfaces, when you land.
And adjust the pushrods etc to get them to the same place as the trim settings.

Do another test flight.
Then you would only need the smallest amount of trim if any.

It's a pita, but does help quite a bit.

I don't personnally think the storm and tornado likes the trims altered to much.

[helimadness]

It's the back to front math :)

But whichever way the P+R angle must = 0.

And the flash sometimes does play a part in it.

I have heard people are using an older firmware (Can't remember if it's the AHRS) with the latest upgrade from something like 1.06
But the latest v1.1 was supposed to fix it after they released v1.01

I also noticed that v1.01 was posted as v1.1 just to confuse things even more.

This is the correct v1.1
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=7639469&d=1425612303

So in PA mode to maintain height is it just the Gyro's doing there job, nothing to do with GPS altitude? So maybe the Tornado is only using info based on what the AHI is displaying?

Ill have another play. Maybe If I stand on my head might make sense :-)

Cheers

I find with trimming the plane.
If you need a lot of trim to make it fly straight and level.

Then setting servo centre isn't as acurate as mechanically setting it.

See where the trims have left the control surfaces, when you land.
And adjust the pushrods etc to get them to the same place as the trim settings.

Do another test flight.
Then you would only need the smallest amount of trim if any.

It's a pita, but does help quite a bit.

I don't personnally think the storm and tornado likes the trims altered to much.

Yeah that all sounds like very good advice. Should be fairly obvious really but never really thought about it. Certainly when ever I set up my helis I spent a lot of time getting it mechanically correct as possible.

Cheers

[_tj_]

Yeah that all sounds like very good advice. Should be fairly obvious really but never really thought about it. Certainly when ever I set up my helis I spent a lot of time getting it mechanically correct as possible.

Cheers

Am I the only once where the swash will not level not matter what.
You then feel like throwing it out the window, but walk away.

Come back after a short while,
And get it first go.............

So annoying. :laugh:

[helimadness]

Yeah that all sounds like very good advice. Should be fairly obvious really but never really thought about it. Certainly when ever I set up my helis I spent a lot of time getting it mechanically correct as possible.

Cheers

Am I the only once where the swash will not level not matter what.
You then feel like throwing it out the window, but walk away.

Come back after a short while,
And get it first go.............

So annoying. :laugh:

Yes been there done that. have another project like that. Just been disaster after disaster. Sitting in a pile broken up in the corner of my aero room. Will get back to it after I get this darn FPV plane sorted. In the meantime ideas are flowing :-)

Cheers