Drone and model aircraft registration - latest.

[electrotor]

Registration may be done through model flying association.
No requirement to sit online test if you already have competency award from your model flying association.
Fee is £9.00 per annum.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Unmanned-aircraft/Our-role/Drone-and-model-aircraft-registration/

[FPVSteve]

As I said on "From The KItchen Table"'s Youtube comments only to have it deleted....

What is the point in sitting a test which is valid for 3 years if the rules are going to change in 6 months (ish) in June 2020 anyway.

If the rules change then the test you took may mean you're not properly educated or indeed aware of correct procedures in order to fly safely. If safety really is the name of the game here then there's something amiss isn't there?

I really don't think the people setting this system up could find their own backside with both hands.

[BigT]

As I said on "From The KItchen Table"'s Youtube comments only to have it deleted....

What is the point in sitting a test which is valid for 3 years if the rules are going to change in 6 months (ish) in June 2020 anyway.

If the rules change then the test you took may mean you're not properly educated or indeed aware of correct procedures in order to fly safely. If safety really is the name of the game here then there's something amiss isn't there?

I really don't think the people setting this system up could find their own backside with both hands.

That was the main reason I did the reg and test with the French system. Article 14 and 16 says a SUA operator and pilot need only register in one member state to be legal throughout all EU states. So in France it's free and lasts 5years, by which time we will still be in the EU and I will be 72 and couldn't give a feck

[urbanfpv]

Registration may be done through model flying association.
No requirement to sit online test if you already have competency award from your model flying association.
Fee is £9.00 per annum.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Unmanned-aircraft/Our-role/Drone-and-model-aircraft-registration/

Nah, I'm good thanks.

[FPVSteve]

That was the main reason I did the reg and test with the French system. Article 14 and 16 says a SUA operator and pilot need only register in one member state to be legal throughout all EU states. So in France it's free and lasts 5years, by which time we will still be in the EU and I will be 72 and couldn't give a feck

Sorry BigT I clicked Edit instead of Quote ...

What I said was.... this also says the UK registration is not valid outside the UK.  Does this mean you have to sit a test in other countries before you fly there in order to then register your already registered aircraft?

It's like having to sit a driving test in France having driven there from Germany. Wut?

[BigT]

Thats an anomaly that I have written to the CAA to clarify. Its confusing as you have to be registered to fly in the country as a visitor but Article 14 states

"UAS operators•must register themselves in the country where they live or, if the operator is an organisation, in the country where they have their principal place of business

•cannot be registered in more than one EU country at a time

•must display their registration number on every unmanned aircraft they operate that falls within the stated requirements".

This may only relate to commercial operations and just be badly written. I took it to mean that competency and registration would be treated like an UK driving license which is valid in the EU until we leave, then you need an international driving permit to go with it and a green card for the vehicle. Obviously not been thought out properly.

[FPVSteve]

I'm starting to feel like even if a prosecution was brought, it would be fairly easy for any reasonably decent lawyer to find a loophole.

There's an old saying something along the lines of "if you can't explain something clearly then you obviously don't understand enough about it" ... that's basically what these regulations make me feel towards the CAA/DfT.

[ORCA]

AFAIK the site/airspace (A3 for most) requirements have not changed from that quoted in CAP1789 page 42(150mtr horizontal clearance etc) and that's the killer.

[BigT]

I have questions yet to be answered, perhaps Eric can throw some light.

In this section of the Queens speech, "Police will be given new powers to tackle the "unlawful use" of drones.

This include forcing a person to land a drone and "enhanced stop and search powers" if an offence involving an unmanned aircraft has taken place.

The laws will also apply to model planes and model helicopters." 

I want to know for sure wether the police will have instant access to the CAA Drone Register or not. K ow one seems to know for sure. Andy Symons, BMFA officer, is of the opinion that they will have to apply through some legal means to get access. Maybe. I am a sceptic but that seems like it defeats the object of the exercise. The police have instant access to DVLC, insurance and MOT register, Electoral Register. I can find out on line who owns a full size plane from its reg number so it just appears logical that the CAA register will be the same. Likewise, how will the LMA or BMFA establish that the reg number on a model relates to the operator or pilot if the register is not public?

Second question: is there a mechanism for de registering if the hobby is dumped by an individual or business?

[FPVSteve]

If they can't, questions need to be asked why because it isn't difficult to manage and it isn't difficult to set up.

I say this as the person who wrote, as a side project, www.dronefinder.co.uk about 3 years ago. It allows you to register an account, upload your aircraft details and it automatically generates stickers for them to either download or order which are then scannable via a mobile phone if someone finds your downed aircraft. Once scanned, it will immediately recognise your aircraft and send the location coordinates to the owner  or give access to the owners telephone number etc. it even allows you to choose what information is disclosed to a "finder" if you're concerned about your privacy.

It did not take years and a huge budget + team to build, is GDPR compliant etc. It sits on a single server that costs me £40/month with a ton of other websites and uses next to no resources despite having an active user base (it's not like it gets a million people all scanning drone stickers at the same time as one another).

This is part of the reason why I am so sceptical about the whole setup costs for the drone register as well as the ongoing maintenance fees they quote. It just doesn't cost as much as they say it does to build a site like theirs and I can actually put my money where my mouth is because I already built more than their minimum offering years ago, at a much reduced cost and with barely any additional costs going forward.

[BigT]

Very astute as always Steve.

[FPVSteve]

Sorry, it wasn't a plug, I wasn't trying to turn it to my advantage I'm just saying that .... it's been done. People who know how to build these systems recognise how much of a rip off it is. I'm fully aware of the differences in process between a single person working on a side project and the management process (and markup!) that goes along with government processes, regulation etc etc - but there is no way it should cost as much as they're making it out to cost and nor is it that difficult (technologically) to implement. The whole thing is simply bureaucracy at its best (worst).

Take FPVUK for instance - they have a secure membership database, they have a register of people who have passed their A test, they provide insurance and membership cards. You cannot possibly tell me that they spend over £4million per annum on maintaining that system.

It would be trivial for them to develop an application that could allow the police to instantly query whether someone was registered and insured or not.

[big a]

I want to know for sure wether the police will have instant access to the CAA Drone Register or not. K ow one seems to know for sure. Andy Symons, BMFA officer, is of the opinion that they will have to apply through some legal means to get access. Maybe. I am a sceptic but that seems like it defeats the object of the exercise. The police have instant access to DVLC, insurance and MOT register, Electoral Register. I can find out on line who owns a full size plane from its reg number so it just appears logical that the CAA register will be the same. Likewise, how will the LMA or BMFA establish that the reg number on a model relates to the operator or pilot if the register is not public?

Second question: is there a mechanism for de registering if the hobby is dumped by an individual or business?

It is likely the Police will be able to obtain the operators details based on the operator ID from the aircraft, also check if someone they have arrested is registered. What they will not have, according to the CAA, is access to the full list of everyone registered so they can go kicking doors in next time there is a "Gatwick" type incident.

The CAA are also bound by GDPR so yes you will be able to de-register by requesting deletion of your data.

[FPVSteve]

Eh - I thought the whole purpose of the register was to find possible suspects who have registered in the area that a crime takes place, i.e. to assist in the identification of an offender.

If they're only allowed to check if the person they arrest is registered, what's the point of it???

If they arrest someone and they're not registered as a drone user are they no longer a suspect? :D That sounds like a compelling case to NOT register at all.

[urbanfpv]

Eh - I thought the whole purpose of the register was to find possible suspects who have registered in the area that a crime takes place, i.e. to assist in the identification of an offender.

That would be a fishing expedition and sounds legally very dubious and is possibly a breach of human rights - I'm sure Liberty would be interested in those kind of shenanigans.  They would need a warrant I suspect to access larger parts of the database.... as indeed they should require one.