I've never been a huge fan of the BMFA but just in case you are interested, the BMFA now list A and B test certs for Multi rotors - take a look here for what will be required: http://www.bmfa.org/Downloads/RCAchievementSchemeDownloads/tabid/220/Default.aspx?EntryId=792 (http://www.bmfa.org/Downloads/RCAchievementSchemeDownloads/tabid/220/Default.aspx?EntryId=792)
Cheers,
what a load of the old bull.....
the a is the same as the heli a as for the b i havent even bothered to look at that...
http://www.fpvhub.com/index.php/topic,21072.msg168637.html#msg168637 (http://www.fpvhub.com/index.php/topic,21072.msg168637.html#msg168637)
Irrelevent, I havent flown at a BFMA field since i was 14 (Im now 29)
Kids don't want to join these clubs because they are run by old stuff men and bitter women who do not want change!
To the point lol
Thought its |OK. Its something to aim for if you like that sort of thing.
This one is quite tough in a fixed pitch multi... Never seen anyone achieve it in the way its described. I hope they don't want that circle too round!!
The model should be flown out to a point between 30-50 metres past the pilot, then flown
back past the pilot on standard height and line, at the point the model reaches in front of the
pilot a loop of approximately 15-25 metres diameter should be performed.
What I find really interesting....
Test Flight line is 10m from pilot....
Doesn't that contradict "normal" rules set by CAA :)
Unless invoke the "under the control" clause which to my viewpoint should be the exception
Makes me think now... every club I have ever been to - helis are flown within 30m 80% of the time.
Not that anyone is intentionally breaking the rules - but does show its maybe not a practical limit?
I think it says 30m when landing and taking off, and 50m for flight, away from anyone that isn't a member of the club ect.
They had to amend it as the wording before said something like "away from everyone except the pilot" which ment you could only have one person on the flight line.
"This (manual) is the only flight mode acceptable for use in the tests, as in this mode the multirotor is not self stabilised."
Should be fun making the Phantom less safe in order to pass a test aimed at both flying ability and safety. But I guess if you can control it in manual mode then you are good to go.
is it even possible to fly a phantom in manual mode without reprogramming the tx?
I thought they were atti, GPS and RTH?
not got one so I don't know
/Steve
Quote from: stevec on August 13, 2014, 01:29:04 PM
is it even possible to fly a phantom in manual mode without reprogramming the tx?
I thought they were atti, GPS and RTH?
not got one so I don't know
/Steve
It's one of the options via the Assistant software which allows you to allocate certain functions to the tx switches. It's not really reprogramming as such, more resetting and afaik actually only affects the NAZA response to switch selection on the tx. Should be fun - NOT.
Take off point is min 5m from pilot, but the flying line is specified as 10m from pilot. So I guess the examiner could be 50m from there or just make sure no recording cameras on board :)
Quote from: Ratty on August 13, 2014, 10:41:03 AM
I think it says 30m when landing and taking off, and 50m for flight, away from anyone that isn't a member of the club ect.
They had to amend it as the wording before said something like "away from everyone except the pilot" which ment you could only have one person on the flight line.
Or........... you can just fly as much as you like, wherever you like, without taking some arbitrary test by not joining a club. Hmmm!! Tough call.
I sometimes think the tests are produced simply to make people feel a bit better about themselves... from what I've seen it certainly doesn't ensure that a pilot flies safely or with any actual control.]
As far as I can tell I am the only one in our club who flies a multi....
there was another guy but I think he gave it up after hitting RTH, it worked great, but it was in the boot of his car when he powered it up!
apparently it made a bit of a mess.
still I don't think the guy who does the heli certification can actually fly one. So maybe I won't have to test myself.
/Steve
just another box ticking exercise. somebody somewhere will give themselves an enormous sense of self importance by issuing these. i don't see the relevance of the test considering how most of us fly, and how most of us use the technology available to us. the BMFA seem to still be well behind the current state of play.
Yep - its there for those that like that kind of thing.
Its not my thing either although did do the BMFA cert and instructor stuff as part of the club.
Unless the CAA recognise it as a standard of flying and means we don't need BNUC-s to do commercial work...
Quote from: stevec on August 13, 2014, 06:33:53 PM
Unless the CAA recognise it as a standard of flying and means we don't need BNUC-s to do commercial work...
Rubish
The BMFA B helicopter used to be okay for commercial work this has been revoked since BNUCs
Remember BMFA is Model flying only Not Comerical flying
Big difference ;)
Ok this is your driving test - please ensure:
- You do not wear a seat belt.
- You disable the airbags if fitted.
- Do not use indicators.
- Do not use Mirrors.
- Do not use the handbrake.
blah blah blah ..... it just doesn't make any sense to me.
And the point of it is?
Why have all the safety features... and not be able to utilise them ...
(I should of put that in i suppose!)
Well I am going to have a go at the A at the weekend. Might as well set a responsible positive example to the members. Mind you I will need to practice flying in total manual mode especially for the lazy 8. Be like when I started flying fixed pitch helicopters 30 years ago.
I know BMFA bashing is popular here but what do you think the test should be ?
1. Preprogram waypoints to take off, fly a left hand circuit then land - press start on laptop/tablet, twiddle thumbs and chat while flight is completed ?
2. Take off in full GPS/IOC hover at 5ft for 30 seconds (eyes open or closed optional), fly forward 50ft, flick RTH switch and watch quad return to start position, land and shutdown ?
If this is a flying ability test then it seems pretty sensible to fly without self levelling or GPS, otherwise not sure what its checking - that your quad works (hopefully wouldn't be your first ever flight anyway).
The purpose of the A test is generally just to show new pilots understand how to conduct a flight safely and can demonstrate basic control, so they can fly unaccompanied, obviously flying fixed wing or heli's at a club this was for good reason.
Re driving test examples above, its more like taking a driving test in the google self driving car - not sure it would be a good idea, or any test of your driving ability.
I think its good that BMFA recognise multirotors and are trying to include them, even if the A/B aren't for everyone.
+1 and there is a need to ensure public safety at shows etc which is why the B is there just as it is with fixed wing and rotary. Anything that improves safety in a club environment is a plus.
I think self-levelling should be allowed. The feature is common to nearly all multirotors and the majority of people nveer even want to fly in full manual mode. Multirotors only fly due to the computer and so it's a completely arbitrary subtraction from their capabilities. It would be like disallowing planes which are designed to be self-levelling to a degree (i.e. trainers) for the fixed-wing test. I agree, though that autopilot features shouldn't be allowed as they just aren't relevant to a club setting.
Good point. I must look up the rule for flybar less heli in the test. Personally although I have A heli I never could get the hang of nose in hover and really struggled with normal circuits. I think it was because I spent far to long in the tail in hover. Anyway going to have a practice today with kk2 (finger on the stabilise switch)
Fbl heli rules are same, no self levelling allowed, if your fbl unit has the capability you have to demonstrate its disabled for the test flight.
I did my heli tests a few years back and it was painful trying to convince the examiner that beastx was ok, he was also baffled by electric heli and newfangled computer transmitter and I didnt get confirmation for a few weeks as they had to double check with technical delegate who hadnt heard of beastx in 2012 :-)
Most people arent interested in taking these tests which is understandable, but I think its a useful exercise for everyone to try to fly the manouvres anyway, ideally in manual but if you can only manage in self levelling or gps thats still useful practice.
Its easy to just fly around without really planning, but trying to fly a set course over cones or markers is a great way to improve even if you never want or plan to take a test.
To my knowledge, I was the second person to pass the new Multi-rotor test last night shortly after a fellow club member. I was going to attempt the B, but the diminishing light around 20:15 got the better of this.
I have questioned a fair few points within the B test, not least the now infamous Loop maneuver which you have to perform (this is getting a lot of comments along with the use of stabilization on other forums). Years ago, the loop was part of the Heli B test along with an auto, but that has subsequently been removed now. In my opinion, performing a loop with the entry and exit positions at the same height is incredibly tricky with a multi and further guidance needs to be provided on the success of the maneuver.
I know a lot of members on here are anti BMFA, but within our club at Leicester we have an ever growing number of FPVers who fly at the club under the BMFA rules and also fly elsewhere as they see fit. We have got to the stage now, where we are about to introduce a Peg board system (not for 35Mhz as has been the case previously, but for 5.8 Video frequencies). Not all clubs are anti FPV, as long as it's done within the rules.
The new A and B multi-rotor tests are there to give new multi rotor pilots (not necessarily FPV multi rotors pilots) the chance to attain this certificate within the BMFA and I personally feel it's a good idea and was recommended as part of a BMFA Multi-rotor special interest group back in early 2013. It's early doors and may get revised with further feedback. I'll have a go at the B and see if we can perfect this loop. I have no issue with any of the other maneuvers in rate mode on the B test.
All good fun and something to aim for.
Quote from: BigT on August 14, 2014, 10:41:49 AM
Well I am going to have a go at the A at the weekend. Might as well set a responsible positive example to the members. Mind you I will need to practice flying in total manual mode especially for the lazy 8. Be like when I started flying fixed pitch helicopters 30 years ago.
Good luck!
Think thats a reasonable manoeuvre for the test? Its certainly possible, but I'm not convinced. I think that one restricts the flyer to multis of a certain power / weight ratio if want a decent size smooth even loop.
Thought perhaps a few others like stall turns - pull up to vertical, rotate etc. might be more achievable. Actually even controlled flips demonstrate a higher ability than A cert.
So do you need to have a multi-rated tester? Or can a heli one do it
Quote from: mjc1970 on August 14, 2014, 02:07:21 PM
I have questioned a fair few points within the B test, not least the now infamous Loop maneuver which you have to perform (this is getting a lot of comments along with the use of stabilization on other forums). Years ago, the loop was part of the Heli B test along with an auto, but that has subsequently been removed now. In my opinion, performing a loop with the entry and exit positions at the same height is incredibly tricky with a multi and further guidance needs to be provided on the success of the maneuver.
Quote from: Shikra on August 14, 2014, 02:40:35 PM
So do you need to have a multi-rated tester? Or can a heli one do it
Quote from: mjc1970 on August 14, 2014, 02:07:21 PM
I have questioned a fair few points within the B test, not least the now infamous Loop maneuver which you have to perform (this is getting a lot of comments along with the use of stabilization on other forums). Years ago, the loop was part of the Heli B test along with an auto, but that has subsequently been removed now. In my opinion, performing a loop with the entry and exit positions at the same height is incredibly tricky with a multi and further guidance needs to be provided on the success of the maneuver.
A Heli Examiner can test the A, you need two examiners (at least one heli examiner) for the B.
As I understand it I need to get my posts up to 10 so here goes.
After reading this thread I still don't understand what's the point of having the A or B cert?, surely if need to prove yourself you just practice until you achieve what you want
It's not about proving anything to yourself. The A certificate is mainly for flying at a club with others. You don't really want to be worried that the person stood next to you on the flightline has barely any control over their model, it's disconcerting and ruins enjoyment if you're having to keep half an eye on someone else's model. The B certificate is usually used as a minimum requirement for flying where the public might be nearby e.g. at a show.
You aren't going to bother with them if you just want to fly in a field somewhere on your own.
Quote from: Goosgog on August 14, 2014, 04:27:13 PM
As I understand it I need to get my posts up to 10 so here goes.
After reading this thread I still don't understand what's the point of having the A or B cert?, surely if need to prove yourself you just practice until you achieve what you want
There are a number of reasons. Primarily, _some_ BMFA affiliated clubs require that you hold an 'A' certificate if you wish to fly un-supervised. This gives them some idea of your abilities and that you are can operate your aircraft safely and responsibly. If you wish to fly at a public display, then they generally require you to hold a 'B' certificate, again, this is purely to give them an idea of your abilities from a safety and competency point of view. Finally, if you, as a BMFA member, were to be involved in an incident resulting in an insurance claim against you and you were not at least an 'A' certificate holder and were flying un-supervised, thats a big loophole for the insurance company.
In particular, the 'A' certificate is more about safety and model handling competency rather than 'skill' levels. You are more likely to fail it from a safety pov rather than ballsing up your landing.
Chris
(ex-BMFA examiner)
Right, that's what I wanted to know. (post No4) I'm getting there
Quote from: mjc1970 on August 14, 2014, 02:07:21 PM
To my knowledge, I was the second person to pass the new Multi-rotor test last night shortly after a fellow club member. I was going to attempt the B, but the diminishing light around 20:15 got the better of this.
I have questioned a fair few points within the B test, not least the now infamous Loop maneuver which you have to perform (this is getting a lot of comments along with the use of stabilization on other forums). Years ago, the loop was part of the Heli B test along with an auto, but that has subsequently been removed now. In my opinion, performing a loop with the entry and exit positions at the same height is incredibly tricky with a multi and further guidance needs to be provided on the success of the maneuver.
I know a lot of members on here are anti BMFA, but within our club at Leicester we have an ever growing number of FPVers who fly at the club under the BMFA rules and also fly elsewhere as they see fit. We have got to the stage now, where we are about to introduce a Peg board system (not for 35Mhz as has been the case previously, but for 5.8 Video frequencies). Not all clubs are anti FPV, as long as it's done within the rules.
The new A and B multi-rotor tests are there to give new multi rotor pilots (not necessarily FPV multi rotors pilots) the chance to attain this certificate within the BMFA and I personally feel it's a good idea and was recommended as part of a BMFA Multi-rotor special interest group back in early 2013. It's early doors and may get revised with further feedback. I'll have a go at the B and see if we can perfect this loop. I have no issue with any of the other maneuvers in rate mode on the B test.
All good fun and something to aim for.
+1
I think a fixed wing examiner can do the multi A test and heli A but it would be nice if he had at least got one him or her self which is why I am doing mine at the weekend.
Good points Chris. Before I comment I must declare that I am a current examiner for BMFA and LMA. I belong to 2 clubs locally. One requires an. A or equivalent to fly solo and/ or over 7kg the other does not. Guess which one I won't fly at if there is anyone else about?
I like the way everyone sees these A and B certificates as "Tests". I thought they were part of an Achievement Scheme, and optional? Lots of people like getting little certificates to demonstrate they have achieved something. Similarly, lots of people just like to fly something. I say well done BMFA for attempting to move with the times, and recognise technology developing.
As for the flying in Manual mode only, I think this is a good idea. Having all the safety features (like GPS, waypoints, RTH etc), until they do not work. The point of the achievement certificate is to demonstrate your ability as a pilot, not the flight controller (eg Naza). Flying a very basic set of manouvres (For the A cert.) should be dead easy for anyone who has flown a multirotor for a handful of flights in manual mode anyway...
Our club will more than likely introduce the rule that in order for people to fly a multirotor solo, they will need to have a BMFA Multirotor A cert. The reason for this, is because it just so happens that this certificate demonstrates a level of ability by the pilot, and presents a fair way to assess a pilots competence that is recognised nationally.. Plus it saves the club having to come up with another method assessing pilots on whether they can fly something safely...
Andy
Quote from: Andy Sayle on August 15, 2014, 01:29:22 PM
I like the way everyone sees these A and B certificates as "Tests". I thought they were part of an Achievement Scheme, and optional?
Our club will more than likely introduce the rule that in order for people to fly a multirotor solo, they will need to have a BMFA Multirotor A cert. The reason for this, is because it just so happens that this certificate demonstrates a level of ability by the pilot, and presents a fair way to assess a pilots competence that is recognised nationally.. Plus it saves the club having to come up with another method assessing pilots on whether they can fly something safely...
Well then at your club they are a
de facto test. Same as in most others. Probably why people often refer to them as tests.
Quote from: Andy Sayle on August 15, 2014, 01:29:22 PM
I like the way everyone sees these A and B certificates as "Tests".
That's because they are tests. The front cover of both A and B say so. A has 89 references to test in the document whilst B has 115 references. (No I didn't count, I used search). Seem like tests to me and the BMFA. :)
Its an age old argument. I never have understood why there is such resistance to being "examined" on your abilities to operate a model aircraft in a safe and responsible manner, unless of course you can't and don't. It is a measure of the pilots ability and it's an achievement to gain your "A". I once belonged to a club of 70 members that operated from a fabulous site that ended up being bordered on 2 sides by a golf course. In an attempt to get rid of the model club the golf club committee decided to ask there liability insurers to carry out a risk assessment on the model club. At that time we only had 16 members out of 70 who had any form of "certification" to operate a model aircraft. So to pre-empt the obvious result we implemented a No A No Solo rule and gave the membership 6 months to get the A. You would not believe the grief the club trainers went through to get the membership to take the A test. In fact we ended up losing 20 or so members, mostly the older ones. However, the upshot was that the club felt and was safer to be at and the membership blossomed with youngsters who's parents where very happy with the safety record. It should be said that this was around the time of 2 fatal accidents caused by models locally, so lots of bad press. Anyway, what happened to the golf club Risk Assessment? Well the model club could prove it was on top of safety and training, but the golf club had to fork out £10,000 on fences and netting to protect the members from the members!
Quote from: chris-s on August 14, 2014, 04:43:38 PM
Finally, if you, as a BMFA member, were to be involved in an incident resulting in an insurance claim against you and you were not at least an 'A' certificate holder and were flying un-supervised, thats a big loophole for the insurance company.
Chris
(ex-BMFA examiner)
Please could you explain what this insurance loophole is? I'm not aware that there a requirement for a BMFA member to hold a qualification in order to be covered, just that the flight is lawful.
Personally, I don't have a problem with being tested. I see it as a positive achievement and and a good way of improving my skills as a multi-rotor pilot and can certainly understand why clubs prefer their members to have some accreditation before they are allowed off the leash to fly solo.
But I will never take the tests. Reason? I will not fly my Hexacopter on manual. It's not fun; it's too expensive in terms of the damage and the learning curve.
I would like to know from those who are connected to the BMFA who have posted here and done the tests their thoughts as to why the tests don't allow stabilised flight mode.
Quote from: Paul881 on August 16, 2014, 06:26:53 PM
I would like to know from those who are connected to the BMFA who have posted here and done the tests their thoughts as to why the tests don't allow stabilised flight mode.
Having spoken at length to the man who spent 3 years writing the tests at the last examiners clinic, his logic is the same as that for the fixed wing tests. Ergo stabilised flight for a multi would be the same as allowing heading hold gyro's to be used in the heli tests or self leveling Gyro's to be used in fixed wing A an B. He made the point that taken to it's extreme you could program a APM 2.5.2 or similar quad to fly the complete test as a Mission.
His point is that it is designed as a test of the pilots skill in controlling the model not the model to fly autonomously and be "guided around the sky". The multi does need a computer to fly in the first place, the same as a heli uses the Tx/Rx computer mixes, but it can be flown in manual mode by a competent pilot. If it cannot then it is not a suitable model to take the test with, period. Same as you cannot take the fixed wing A with a model under 1kg or indoors et al.
The point was made by me (and other examiners), however, that when we take our B and Examiners test on fixed wing it is allowed to use the computer radio to control rates and mixes used to get the model to fly in a trimmed way. For example when doing the 2 consecutive rolls it is common practice to teach the student to set up aileron rates that give the correct roll rate etc. The answer was that it would not be allowed to use a Flight Controller to land the plane or fly the maneuvers.
Personally, and there was a cadre that agreed, that for the A stabalised mode should be allowed and for the B, which is a huge step up in skill, and used as a "Public Display License", it should be done in manual mode.
Generally I treat the A test as a "site specific safety test". In other words would I be happy to let a child be around this person when he is operating this dangerous piece of kit when I have my back turned. Does the candidate have an awareness of their legal and moral responsibilities when operating this small aircraft. Will this person if left to their own devices cause damage or injury to themselves or others. For the record, and think this goes for most BMFA examiners, I want to pass not fail a candidate, I want to make modelling safer and I want to keep flying sites. But I will fail candidates who have not read up on the handbook and who do not have the necessary skill set yet.
Quote from: Paul881 on August 16, 2014, 06:26:53 PMI will never take the tests. Reason? I will not fly my Hexacopter on manual. It's not fun; it's too expensive in terms of the damage and the learning curve.
That seems a weird perspective, a lot of incidents could be avoided if people were confident flying in manual (flyaways, compass issues etc), so it could potentially be much more expensive NOT to learn to fly in manual.
If you only have a large/expensive multi, you can buy/build a very very cheap quad to practice with (certainly under £100, probably even less - there are some very cheap RTF micro quads which have manual modes, my son has a nanoQX and I'm sure there are much cheaper clones which would be ideal for practicing indoor on rainy days with almost no risk of damage to either quad or furniture), and if you take things steady and are discipline you should be able to learn to fly in manual from the ground up with few or no crashes.
I completely understand a lot of people are not interested in passing tests, but feel everyone should at least have a go at these manouvres, in manual mode, purely as a learning exercise, it cannot fail to improve your flying skills, which surely is what everyone is trying to achieve rather than stagnating and just doing what you did last month because its easy.
Quote from: jamesb72 on August 16, 2014, 07:23:23 PM
Quote from: Paul881 on August 16, 2014, 06:26:53 PMI will never take the tests. Reason? I will not fly my Hexacopter on manual. It's not fun; it's too expensive in terms of the damage and the learning curve.
That seems a weird perspective, a lot of incidents could be avoided if people were confident flying in manual (flyaways, compass issues etc), so it could potentially be much more expensive NOT to learn to fly in manual.
If you only have a large/expensive multi, you can buy/build a very very cheap quad to practice with (certainly under £100, probably even less - there are some very cheap RTF micro quads which have manual modes, my son has a nanoQX and I'm sure there are much cheaper clones which would be ideal for practicing indoor on rainy days with almost no risk of damage to either quad or furniture), and if you take things steady and are discipline you should be able to learn to fly in manual from the ground up with few or no crashes.
I completely understand a lot of people are not interested in passing tests, but feel everyone should at least have a go at these manouvres, in manual mode, purely as a learning exercise, it cannot fail to improve your flying skills, which surely is what everyone is trying to achieve rather than stagnating and just doing what you did last month because its easy.
Good point well made
Quote from: jamesb72 on August 16, 2014, 07:23:23 PM
Quote from: Paul881 on August 16, 2014, 06:26:53 PMI will never take the tests. Reason? I will not fly my Hexacopter on manual. It's not fun; it's too expensive in terms of the damage and the learning curve.
That seems a weird perspective, a lot of incidents could be avoided if people were confident flying in manual (flyaways, compass issues etc), so it could potentially be much more expensive NOT to learn to fly in manual.
If you only have a large/expensive multi, you can buy/build a very very cheap quad to practice with (certainly under £100, probably even less - there are some very cheap RTF micro quads which have manual modes, my son has a nanoQX and I'm sure there are much cheaper clones which would be ideal for practicing indoor on rainy days with almost no risk of damage to either quad or furniture), and if you take things steady and are discipline you should be able to learn to fly in manual from the ground up with few or no crashes.
I completely understand a lot of people are not interested in passing tests, but feel everyone should at least have a go at these manouvres, in manual mode, purely as a learning exercise, it cannot fail to improve your flying skills, which surely is what everyone is trying to achieve rather than stagnating and just doing what you did last month because its easy.
I don't think you're understanding what is meant by manual vs stabilised modes in this context.
It relates only to how the pitch and roll controls operate and has nothing at all to do with GPS or compasses. Manual (or rate) mode means that e.g. if you hold left aileron then it will keep rolling left until you centre the stick and then it will stay in that same angle. In stabilised mode full aileron will roll the craft to a preset angle and when the stick is moved back to centre it will roll level again. Most of the RTF micro quads only have stabilised modes.
I only fly in manual but I only fly quads FPV. But I think it's safer to fly a quad LOS (though I've always been massively confused by the appeal of that anyway) in stabilised mode. They aren't helicopters and orientation can be much trickier, knowing that you can always centre the sticks and gain height seems a good way to avoid some accidents.
I guess it depends what floats your boat. I have "manual" disabled on my multi-rotors used for AP. I have no use for anything other than Atti and GPS modes and rely heavily on Atti mode. I respect people who can fly well in manual mode, but AP work is all about being steady, which isn't easy in manual mode - at least not for me.
You both make good points and I can see the logic in your arguments but I would suggest that flying a small quad manually is not the same as flying a hex or oct manually.
There is no comparing flying my F550 in ATT mode in terms of safety compared to me flying a micro quad manually around my living room. The fact that I can do the latter does not make me believe for one minute that I can fly my F550 in anything other than GPS or ATT mode. Yes there are flyaways, and compass issues but switching to manual mode unless you are very experienced at flying manual with that craft is not something I would like to do.
And I can't see the value of the test if it's just to get a certificate after which you then revert to the craft you really want to fly, that you never fly in manual mode, which is very different in characteristic to the craft you passed the test with.
But Big T's suggestion about the A test allowing the use of a stabilised flight for multirotor would be a positive step.
Quote from: Heliotrope on August 16, 2014, 08:32:01 PM
I guess it depends what floats your boat. I have "manual" disabled on my multi-rotors used for AP. I have no use for anything other than Atti and GPS modes and rely heavily on Atti mode. I respect people who can fly well in manual mode, but AP work is all about being steady, which isn't easy in manual mode - at least not for me.
Me too, but I would like to have an accreditation for safe flying in those modes and so I think being excluded from the tests on that basis is an opportunity missed for the BMFA.
Quote from: Loopdreams on August 16, 2014, 08:11:05 PMI think it's safer to fly a quad LOS (though I've always been massively confused by the appeal of that anyway) in stabilised mode. They aren't helicopters and orientation can be much trickier, knowing that you can always centre the sticks and gain height seems a good way to avoid some accidents.
I completely agree.
In some ways fancy flight controllers are damaging the hobby they allow everybody to buy big fancy crafts, and at the end of the day , it's so company's can make money selling things. Rarely bought a huge 5000 pound plane and hurt somebody in the old days because there wallet and brain said they were not capable , now a fancy controller says anybody can do it.
I hate tests licences but unfortunately some people are the Hobbes worst enemy. If they said example it is against the law to fly a multi rotor that weights > 800g all in until you had passed a test and then > 1.5kg until you passed another.
Surely this would teach people a little respect and make sure that people with machines that frankly can be dangerous in the wrong hands. And in turn take pressure of hobbyists with some respect and skills
Don't shoot me just my opinion
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/3515407/ares-machine-gun-o.gif)
Quote from: Paul881 on August 16, 2014, 08:35:45 PM
... Yes there are flyaways, and compass issues but switching to manual mode unless you are very experienced at flying manual with that craft is not something I would like to do.
And I can't see the value of the test if it's just to get a certificate after which you then revert to the craft you really want to fly, that you never fly in manual mode, which is very different in characteristic to the craft you passed the test with...
But that's the point, you have to have the experience before you can pass the test.
I recently passed my A test for planks, flying purely manual LOS even tho I have no real interest in LOS flying. I did it partly so that I could fly solo at the local club but mostly so that if everything went pear shaped I could still recover the model. It took a bit of effort but I'm really happy I did it. I had been flying home made foamies and multis for a while but I still went ahead and trained for the A
Now, it's true that it's very unlikely something will fail and I will suddenly need to fly a multi in manual mode but I still plan to do the multi A. On that weird & unusual day (taking off in the wrong mode?) I will know I can cope. As a bonus, the coffin dodgers at my local club won't be able to complain ;) Producing a BMFA A cert may also shutdown any 'jobsworths' who complain about me flying guerilla style
I can't see a downside to taking the A for multis so why not do it?
Quote from: PotNoodle on August 17, 2014, 12:53:31 AM
I can't see a downside to taking the A for multis so why not do it?
Because its not relevant to the way I fly my multi and if I'm doing it just to pass a test on a craft that is different in flight characteristics, whats the value of it?
To be clear, I would like to do the test and on my F550 Hex but not in manual mode.