Cyclops Storm wants to commit suicide!

[jweaver]

I am having this EXACT issue today with my Tornado ...

When you say "EXACT" do you mean the same as mine?

Now that I have broken this down, I have 2 issues..

1. When in Heading Hold mode (Or RTH) the Aelerons move to put the plane in a 25 degree bank (left or right), which then makes it spiral towards the ground
2. The Elevators only move a tiny amount (pehrpas +/- 2mm) when in PA mode

But at all times, the Gyro (Measured by the P and R values, and also the HUD) seem fine. The Storm knows its pitching, yet does little to correct this.

So I think its a combination of both issues which is causing my issue.

Jon

[jweaver]

I always reset my gyro before first flight of the day at place of flight.
Mainly because they can sit in the loft for months before I fly them again.

And thats the other thing.. How long is it taking you guys to reset the gyro? Mine takes about 20-30 seconds (flashing OK).

Jon

[FPVSteve]

My control surfaces operate as I'd expect (including pitch) .. the problem is they move when they're not supposed to (as they would if the gyro needed calibrated).

It sounds to me like you have a trim problem? Have you trimmed the plane in MANUAL MODE to fly straight + level at 50% throttle, then landed and clicked on "Servo Center" on the OSD menu to record the positions? If you move the trims after doing this you'll need to do it again.

[FPVSteve]

MY gyro takes about 10 secs, but it might take longer if the temperature discrepency is high?

I'm going to persue this later on:

1. Power on
2. Wait 5 mins
3. Power off
4. Power on
5. Reset Gyro
6. Check surfaces
7. Take off in manual
8. Hit RTH .. and then pick up the bits

[jweaver]

My control surfaces operate as I'd expect (including pitch) .. the problem is they move when they're not supposed to (as they would if the gyro needed calibrated).

It sounds to me like you have a trim problem? Have you trimmed the plane in MANUAL MODE to fly straight + level at 50% throttle, then landed and clicked on "Servo Center" on the OSD menu to record the positions? If you move the trims after doing this you'll need to do it again.

Done all that.. But forget flying for now.. On the ground, my Elevators don't even move when I pitch the plane...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rru0wrdqX7U

I have tried everything I can do in the menus, and the Elevators are almost entirly unresponsive to pitch.. The Ailerons work fine.. Exactly as you would expect them too.. Until I get GPS and Heading Hold kicks in.. Then it wants to do very abrupt turns.. But then of course, with no way to correct the pitch, the plane corkscrews into the ground (And another pair of pants gets spoiled).

Jon

[FPVSteve]

Do the elevators work in manual mode? Just wondering if you need more mechanical throw on them, I know mine are dumbed down a LOT in PA/RTH mode (think it's something to do with the MAX ELEVATOR setting, I have mine set to 20 degrees now.

[Loopdreams]

When you say "EXACT" do you mean the same as mine?

Now that I have broken this down, I have 2 issues..

1. When in Heading Hold mode (Or RTH) the Aelerons move to put the plane in a 25 degree bank (left or right), which then makes it spiral towards the ground
2. The Elevators only move a tiny amount (pehrpas +/- 2mm) when in PA mode

But at all times, the Gyro (Measured by the P and R values, and also the HUD) seem fine. The Storm knows its pitching, yet does little to correct this.

So I think its a combination of both issues which is causing my issue.

Jon

Isn't 2 the expected behaviour?  In PA mode it's trying to maintain a constant altitude, not necessarily a constant pitch.  So it's only going to deflect the elevator if it reads a big gain or drop in altitude.

All autopilot modes can behave a bit strangely on the ground, the autopilot gives a  small input to make a tiny correction but then if it sees no correction it keeps on feeding the input in.  I remember seeing this when I had it set up, engaging the autopilot on the ground would see the the ailerons go to full deflection.

[FPVSteve]

That's a good point.. the PA mode will adjust to MAX PITCH ANGLE if it's above or below the altitude, so maybe worth increasing the max angle?

Also the ailerons if PA Heading is enabled will drift all over the place on the ground because GPS heading isn't exactly accurate when the plane isn't moving

[jweaver]

That's a good point.. the PA mode will adjust to MAX PITCH ANGLE if it's above or below the altitude, so maybe worth increasing the max angle?

Also the ailerons if PA Heading is enabled will drift all over the place on the ground because GPS heading isn't exactly accurate when the plane isn't moving

In the video above you can see my manual movements, which are completely normal.. And then the automatic movements from the Storm which are almost inpercievable.

I have tried changing the Gain/Max Angle and it makes no difference.. The Elevators are almost entirely unresponsive.

[jweaver]

Isn't 2 the expected behaviour?  In PA mode it's trying to maintain a constant altitude, not necessarily a constant pitch.  So it's only going to deflect the elevator if it reads a big gain or drop in altitude.

Its possible.. When I was out in the field I did wonder if Elevator movement was linked to "altitude" not "pitch" when in PA.. But I am sure they are ment to move more than they do.. Right now, the correction is so subtle, it simply can't keep the nose up when PA forces the Ailerons in a hard turn.

I guess it would be helpful if someone could confirm how much Elevator movement they see, on the ground when PA is on.. I would assume them to move a fair bit and certainly more than I am seeing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rru0wrdqX7U

[jweaver]

There is one thing I am considering.. Its well accepted now that in my initial flight, the Pitch was set wrong, so the plane always thought it was climbing.. So perhaps the reason it fell out of the sky was because the elevators were pushing the nose down.. And perhaps the tiny movements I am seeing on the elevators are completely normal.

So perhaps if I trimmed it for level flight, so that P+R were 0, then maybe it would fly a lot better, and whilst the plane might still turn hard, it wouldn't go nose down.

I think before I fly again, I would like to get confirmation from someone as to how much Elevator movement they see on the ground in PA.. I still think mine (with a couple of mms travel) is wrong.

Jon

[_tj_]

There is one thing I am considering.. Its well accepted now that in my initial flight, the Pitch was set wrong, so the plane always thought it was climbing.. So perhaps the reason it fell out of the sky was because the elevators were pushing the nose down.. And perhaps the tiny movements I am seeing on the elevators are completely normal.

So perhaps if I trimmed it for level flight, so that P+R were 0, then maybe it would fly a lot better, and whilst the plane might still turn hard, it wouldn't go nose down.

I think before I fly again, I would like to get confirmation from someone as to how much Elevator movement they see on the ground in PA.. I still think mine (with a couple of mms travel) is wrong.

Jon

My Tornado and Storm will both deflect the elevator and ailerons whilst on the ground in PA mode.
The more I nose it down the more it moves.

Wouldn't make sense for it not to for testing purposes.

[jweaver]

My Tornado and Storm will both deflect the elevator and ailerons whilst on the ground in PA mode.
The more I nose it down the more it moves.

Wouldn't make sense for it not to for testing purposes.

How much? Mine do deflect as you nose up/down, but only a matter of mm's.. And I can't believe this is normal/correct.

[FPVSteve]

I've just spent the best part of 45 minutes trying to dial my Tornado in at the field with mixed results which basically means it is as inconsistent as ever.

I can't recommend this product and am feeling pretty pissed off to say the least. Almost to the point of taking an FPV hiatus.

[_tj_]

Tornado was better before the Loiter mode was added imho.